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Old 01-29-2007, 08:56 AM    (permalink
nyjetsguy27
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supposedly both the jets and giants are looking at thomas jones from the bears. and im not just bullshitting this, i actually saw it on a football website. id rather have turner/bush/hunt/leonard, but jones would be good too.
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Old 01-29-2007, 12:43 PM    (permalink
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One thing we lacked last year was a big target in the red zone. If I was avail with our first 2nd rounder, would you consider taking Dwayne Bowe? I don't think I would because we have bigger holes to fill, just throwing it out there for speculation.

One guy I want is Jason Hill from Wazzu. I heard he was really impressive during the Senior Bowl practices.
first off, dwayne bowe is gonna be a 2nd rounder, and i dont want to waste such a high pick on a guy that had such a bad senior bowl week. also, ive been talking about jason hill for the past month, before the senior bowl even began. he has great hands, runs great routes, a bigtime team player (realllllllllllly nice guy), and is a great run blocker.
1) Dwayne Bowe was a first rounder before the sr. bowl. If he times in the 4.45 range after the great sr. bowl he had I can see him jumping over Dwayne Jarrett and going #10 to Atlanta. Even if he dosent he wont make it to out 1st rd pick.

2) Jason Hill is a very good reciever but he is exactley Jerricho Cotchery. Hes 6-0 like Cotchery, dosent have elite timed speed but is a hard runner, also like Cotchery. If we would draft a reciever Id either perfer a big target (Jacoby Jones from Lane, Marten Teal from Troy State) or a gamebreaker with blazing speed (Johnnie Lee Higgins from UTEP, Chansi Stuckey from Clemson)
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Old 01-29-2007, 01:55 PM    (permalink
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[quote="hcbrad08"]Projections for senior bowl players (Not mine: from uncle Mel)
Relevant to Jets ONLY! (sorry its so long I didn't realize how many were relevant) If its bold i like them for the jetd. If its italics is unrealistic for where we pick.

RB Brian Leonard 6-1 224 Rutgers
Jack-of-all-trades player. Runs, catches, blocks. (Round 2)

RB Tony Hunt 6-2 239 Penn State
Gliding, patient runner. Good blocker. Not explosive. (Round 3 or 4)

DB Tanard Jackson 6-0 192 Syracuse
Physical, tough, athletic. Average cover skills. (Round 2)


DE Jay Moore 6-5 275 Nebraska
Good quickness. Explosive first step. Works hard. (Round 2 or 3)


WR Paul Williams 6-2 210 Fresno State
Has size, natural receiving skills. Underrated. (late-Day 1 to early-Day 2)

DB Josh Wilson 5-9 188 Maryland
Fast and athletic. Great recovery ablility. Return skills. (Round 3 or 4)


DB Daymeion Hughes 5-10 192 California
Great anticipation, hands, instincts. Speed question. (late-Round 1)

DE/LB Anthony Spencer 6-2 266 Purdue
Great natural pass-rush ablility. (late-Round 1 to mid-Round 2)

OL Manuel Ramirez 6-3 335 Texas Tech
Wide body. Takes up space. Lacks quickness. (early- to mid-Day 2)


OL Levi Brown 6-5 323 Penn State
Has all the physical tools. Hard worker. Good intangibles. (mid-Round 1)

OL Josh Beekman 6-2 315 Boston College
Versatile. Plays center or guard Tough. Solid and reliable. (Round 3)

OL Samson Satele 6-2 294 Hawaii
Excellent player. Versatile. Tough. Strong. Works hard. (Round 2)

DL Amobi Okoye 6-2 287 Louisville
Awesome quickness, spin move. Enormous ability. (mid-Round 1)

DE Adam Carriker 6-6 292 Nebraska
Versatile. Long arms. Big frame. Uses hands well. (mid-Round 1)


DE Victor Abiamiri 6-4 271 Notre Dame
Solid, tough, reliable. Good technique. Not flashy. (Round 2)

LB Buster Davis 5-9 244 Florida State
Very productive. Small, but rock solid. Great run defender. (late-Day 1)

DB Brandon Meriweather 5-11 192 Miami
Adequate coverage skills. Versatile. Can be force in box. (Round 3 or 4)


RB Kenny Irons 5-11 198 Auburn
Not big but solid back. Injury issues. (Round 2)

DB Jonathan Wade 5-10 192 Tennessee
Athletic. Good size. Not real instinctive in coverage. (Round 3 to Round 5)


DB Aaron Ross 6-0 192 Texas
Tough. Instinctive. Great tackler in run support. (mid- to late-Round 1)


OL Mansfield Wrotto 6-3 316 Georgia Tech
Former DL. Needs technique work. Raw. (Day 2)

OL Dustin Fry 6-2 326 Clemson
Overachiever. Works hard. Big frame. (mid- to late-Day 2)

OL Justin Blalock 6-3 331 Texas
Smart. Battle tested. Versatile. A guard, but can play tackle. (Round 2)

OL Tony Ugoh 6-5 301 Arkansas
Phenomenal athlete. Raw technically. (late-Round 1 to mid-Round 2)

OL Ben Grubbs 6-3 315 Auburn
Athletic. Great at pulling and trapping. (late-Round 1 or early-Round 2)


DL Tank Tyler 6-2 323 NC State
Great production. Needs technique work. (late-Round 1 to Round 2)

OL Tim Duckworth 6-3 304 Auburn
Lots of ability as guard. Good size. Athletic. Good run blocker. (Round 3)

OL Arron Sears 6-3 317 Tennessee
Versatile. Good strength, feet, technique. (late-Round 1 or early-Round 2)


LB Tony Taylor 6-1 237 Georgia
Tackling machine. Can he transition to NFL? (Day 2)


WR Dwayne Bowe 6-2 222 LSU
Big. Competitive. Size and speed. Athletic. (mid-Round 1)


DL Antonio Johnson 6-3 305 Mississippi State
Has skills, but not super productive. Has gained quickness. (Day 2)


TE Joe Newton 6-7 249 Oregon State
Big target. Good hands. Decent blocker. (Round 3)

DE Quentin Moses 6-5 249 Georgia
Good edge rusher. Could play on feet in 3-4. Needs strength. (Round 2)


DE Ray McDonald 6-3 282 Florida
Durability issues. Can play end or tackle. (Round 3 or 4)

DL Kareem Brown 6-4 303 Miami
Underachiever. Has ability. (mid- to late-Day 2)

Forget Free Agency right now and with these projections lets try and mock something up and see if we can fill the gaps.quote]

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Old 01-29-2007, 04:21 PM    (permalink
Zim3031
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Originally Posted by Johnny4
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Originally Posted by Zim3031
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Originally Posted by Johnny4
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Originally Posted by shavedaeyebrow2
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Originally Posted by Johnny4
2 rookies(I know BUSH, but he was more dangerous as a reciever than a runner) 3 past their prime(Jones,Dillon and Duece), a career backup(Rhodes) and a first round bust(Benson). You can find a rb. You need a playmaker.
javascript:emoticon('')
Sorry, bit late, but that may have been one of the dumbest posts I've read. Deuce and Jones aren't past their prime. Deuce is what, 27? Jones is IN his prime. He was never good and now he is playing tremendously. How can you call Cedric Benson a first round bust after a first season where he was holding out so he got off on a bad foot and after this season, where he was declared starter but got injured, so TJ started. After Benson's games in the playoffs, he is in no way a bust. The only right thing you said there was Dillon is out of his prime and Rhodes is a backup.

You say we need a playmaker? What do you call Leon Washington? That is all he is, a playmaker. Look at the Miami game. Leon isn't a guy you give the ball to every play and let him slowly get his yards, he is a guy that will give a HUGE play once ina while, off of a screen, dump pass, or a run once in a while.
Yep. I'm dumb. Do you know what Jones has said recently to his brother? I have to make the best of this year because I have only 1 or 2 good ones left. Heard it out of his mouth on Sirius NFL.(Yep,sounds like a guy in his prime). By the way why was Jones on the trading block earlier this year? And Duece, have you seen his injury history? We are talking about RB. One of the reasons Bush was drafted as they didn't know what they were going to get out of Duece this year. Let me know who took any of these guys in the first round of their fantasy draft? The only guy in the second round of mine was Bush because everyone knew he would catch balls. Grow up before you throw stones at the big boys.
Once again PLAYMAKER.(You need more than one)
Hines Ward-Plmkr
WillieParker-playmaker
Santonio Holmes-Playmaker
That's just the steelers and they sucked this year. Let me know if you need more examples.
Tony Gonzales-playmaker
Larry Johnson-playmaker
Dante Hall-playmaker
KC .Yes, I am using examples of teams worse than ours to highlight the need. School's over.
What the hell are you talking about? You say we need playmakers than point to teams that weren't any good this year and point out, basically, that we should follow the precedent of bad teams?

What we need at runningback is a Curtis Martin, a dependable workhorse that can get you the yards you need. We already have that speedy big play threat in Leon. Players like Kenny Irons, Tony Hunt, or Brian Leonard could all fill that role.
If you go back to my original post. That is exactly what I said. I even mentioned Curtis. My point was a playmaker(imo) is a person you have to deal with every time the are on the field. Not jus a specialist.
Curtis Martin was never this explosive playmaker that you speak of. He was never the kind of guy that would singlehandedly take over the game or score a touchdown from anywhere in the field. He was never regarded as a great explosive playmaker or as the best runningback in the league.

He was what he was, a consistent runningback that carried a stable rushing attack for 10 years, and that's something special in its own.
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Old 01-29-2007, 06:07 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zim3031
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Originally Posted by Johnny4
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Originally Posted by Zim3031
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Originally Posted by Johnny4
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Originally Posted by shavedaeyebrow2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny4
2 rookies(I know BUSH, but he was more dangerous as a reciever than a runner) 3 past their prime(Jones,Dillon and Duece), a career backup(Rhodes) and a first round bust(Benson). You can find a rb. You need a playmaker.
javascript:emoticon('')
Sorry, bit late, but that may have been one of the dumbest posts I've read. Deuce and Jones aren't past their prime. Deuce is what, 27? Jones is IN his prime. He was never good and now he is playing tremendously. How can you call Cedric Benson a first round bust after a first season where he was holding out so he got off on a bad foot and after this season, where he was declared starter but got injured, so TJ started. After Benson's games in the playoffs, he is in no way a bust. The only right thing you said there was Dillon is out of his prime and Rhodes is a backup.

You say we need a playmaker? What do you call Leon Washington? That is all he is, a playmaker. Look at the Miami game. Leon isn't a guy you give the ball to every play and let him slowly get his yards, he is a guy that will give a HUGE play once ina while, off of a screen, dump pass, or a run once in a while.
Yep. I'm dumb. Do you know what Jones has said recently to his brother? I have to make the best of this year because I have only 1 or 2 good ones left. Heard it out of his mouth on Sirius NFL.(Yep,sounds like a guy in his prime). By the way why was Jones on the trading block earlier this year? And Duece, have you seen his injury history? We are talking about RB. One of the reasons Bush was drafted as they didn't know what they were going to get out of Duece this year. Let me know who took any of these guys in the first round of their fantasy draft? The only guy in the second round of mine was Bush because everyone knew he would catch balls. Grow up before you throw stones at the big boys.
Once again PLAYMAKER.(You need more than one)
Hines Ward-Plmkr
WillieParker-playmaker
Santonio Holmes-Playmaker
That's just the steelers and they sucked this year. Let me know if you need more examples.
Tony Gonzales-playmaker
Larry Johnson-playmaker
Dante Hall-playmaker
KC .Yes, I am using examples of teams worse than ours to highlight the need. School's over.
What the hell are you talking about? You say we need playmakers than point to teams that weren't any good this year and point out, basically, that we should follow the precedent of bad teams?

What we need at runningback is a Curtis Martin, a dependable workhorse that can get you the yards you need. We already have that speedy big play threat in Leon. Players like Kenny Irons, Tony Hunt, or Brian Leonard could all fill that role.
If you go back to my original post. That is exactly what I said. I even mentioned Curtis. My point was a playmaker(imo) is a person you have to deal with every time the are on the field. Not jus a specialist.
Curtis Martin was never this explosive playmaker that you speak of. He was never the kind of guy that would singlehandedly take over the game or score a touchdown from anywhere in the field. He was never regarded as a great explosive playmaker or as the best runningback in the league.

He was what he was, a consistent runningback that carried a stable rushing attack for 10 years, and that's something special in its own.
Exactly, Curtis wasn't a "playmaker" he was a guy who you could count on for 1200 yards and 8 TD's each year. Coaches didn't gameplan how to stop him, or have nightmares about him destroying their team single-handedly. He was just very solid at everything
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Old 01-29-2007, 06:08 PM    (permalink
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Wow I really disagree with a lot of your rankings as far as rounds go hcbrad.
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Old 01-29-2007, 06:12 PM    (permalink
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Curtis Martin was never this explosive playmaker that you speak of. He was never the kind of guy that would singlehandedly take over the game or score a touchdown from anywhere in the field. He was never regarded as a great explosive playmaker or as the best runningback in the league.

He was what he was, a consistent runningback that carried a stable rushing attack for 10 years, and that's something special in its own.
Curtis Martin is one of the best RB's of all time. Let's stop taking anything away from him! If he was healthy he'd be Mangini's starting RB and would go over 1000 yards an 11th time. He wasn't a Terrell Davis playmaker but before he hit 30 like most RBs he had his fair share of 40,50,60 yard runs he's an immortal RB so leave it alone. Also he did win the rushing title in 2004 which is definitely an indicator of who the best RB in the league is (he beat out Shaun Alexander and even if Alexander got that last carry he still would only have a tie with Martin) He was amazing and its hard to fill those shoes but I think with the right compliment to Washington we'd be well off and I might add that is not a 190 lb Kenny Irons, or Lorenzo Booker its a Leonard, Bush, Hunt, lastly Turner (too much to give up they want a 1st and a 3rd)
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Old 01-29-2007, 06:32 PM    (permalink
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Curtis Martin was never this explosive playmaker that you speak of. He was never the kind of guy that would singlehandedly take over the game or score a touchdown from anywhere in the field. He was never regarded as a great explosive playmaker or as the best runningback in the league.

He was what he was, a consistent runningback that carried a stable rushing attack for 10 years, and that's something special in its own.
Curtis Martin is one of the best RB's of all time. Let's stop taking anything away from him! If he was healthy he'd be Mangini's starting RB and would go over 1000 yards an 11th time. He wasn't a Terrell Davis playmaker but before he hit 30 like most RBs he had his fair share of 40,50,60 yard runs he's an immortal RB so leave it alone. Also he did win the rushing title in 2004 which is definitely an indicator of who the best RB in the league is (he beat out Shaun Alexander and even if Alexander got that last carry he still would only have a tie with Martin) He was amazing and its hard to fill those shoes but I think with the right compliment to Washington we'd be well off and I might add that is not a 190 lb Kenny Irons, or Lorenzo Booker its a Leonard, Bush, Hunt, lastly Turner (too much to give up they want a 1st and a 3rd)
Nobody loves Curtis more than me but I think he's overrated. There's a reason his career ypc was 4.0, he was a grinder and damn good at it. But to put him amongst the greatest runningbacks of all time I think is just not right.

Herm and Hackett were the reason that Curtis had so many yards, and the reason his career ended so short. In his rushing title season, when Lamont Jordan was there in the background, he led the league in rushing attempts by such a margin that its almost criminal at his age. 31 year old runningbacks shouldn't be leading the league in carries when you drafted an heir in the second round a year earlier

As I said he was what he was, a consistent and reliable runningback that was there for the whole season and played through any injury. He never dominated the league at any point or had the ability to create touchdowns out of nothing. He is not on the level of such greats as Barry, Brown, Dickerson or Payton in terms of greatness by any means.

And don't knock Kenny Irons, he is remarkably similar to Curtis when he came out of college. Nothing would make me happier on draft day than to see Irons on this team.
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Old 01-29-2007, 06:33 PM    (permalink
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2) Jason Hill is a very good reciever but he is exactley Jerricho Cotchery. Hes 6-0 like Cotchery, dosent have elite timed speed but is a hard runner, also like Cotchery. If we would draft a reciever Id either perfer a big target (Jacoby Jones from Lane, Marten Teal from Troy State) or a gamebreaker with blazing speed (Johnnie Lee Higgins from UTEP, Chansi Stuckey from Clemson)
Wow... I thought Hill was bigger than 6-0. Not sure about him then. We have the speedster in Coles, and then we have Cotchery, who you described pretty well. We need a big target, preferably someone 6-3 or taller.

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first off, dwayne bowe is gonna be a 2nd rounder, and i dont want to waste such a high pick on a guy that had such a bad senior bowl week.
Not so sure about that... he's in the first on most mocks

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News on Michael Turner :D

Jets | Team showing interest in M. Turner?
Fri, 26 Jan 2007 18:32:08 -0800

Ralph Vacchiano, of the New York Daily News, reports the New York Jets have reportedly showed interest in San Diego Chargers RB Michael Turner, according to Chargers general manager A.J. Smith. Turner will be a restricted free agent in this upcoming offseason.
What would we have to give up for him.
Probably our late 2nd is the most we'd give for him.
maybe, but their asking for at least a first. steep price for someone not totally proven.
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Old 01-29-2007, 07:37 PM    (permalink
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2) Jason Hill is a very good reciever but he is exactley Jerricho Cotchery. Hes 6-0 like Cotchery, dosent have elite timed speed but is a hard runner, also like Cotchery. If we would draft a reciever Id either perfer a big target (Jacoby Jones from Lane, Marten Teal from Troy State) or a gamebreaker with blazing speed (Johnnie Lee Higgins from UTEP, Chansi Stuckey from Clemson)
That is a good thing. A great thing. I would love drafting a Jerricho Cotchery with out third round pick.
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Old 01-29-2007, 08:24 PM    (permalink
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I would prefer a big target like Jacoby Jones to be able get solid yardage a lot but theres nothing wrong with getting a speed receiver since Coles has been nagged with injuries. Like I said before, there is a lot of depth at WR this year so we can wait till the 5th round and get a good. Personally, I would prefer Jason Hill to compliment Cotchery and for his excellent run blocking.
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Old 01-29-2007, 08:32 PM    (permalink
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Curtis Martin was never this explosive playmaker that you speak of. He was never the kind of guy that would singlehandedly take over the game or score a touchdown from anywhere in the field. He was never regarded as a great explosive playmaker or as the best runningback in the league.

He was what he was, a consistent runningback that carried a stable rushing attack for 10 years, and that's something special in its own.
Curtis Martin is one of the best RB's of all time. Let's stop taking anything away from him! If he was healthy he'd be Mangini's starting RB and would go over 1000 yards an 11th time. He wasn't a Terrell Davis playmaker but before he hit 30 like most RBs he had his fair share of 40,50,60 yard runs he's an immortal RB so leave it alone. Also he did win the rushing title in 2004 which is definitely an indicator of who the best RB in the league is (he beat out Shaun Alexander and even if Alexander got that last carry he still would only have a tie with Martin) He was amazing and its hard to fill those shoes but I think with the right compliment to Washington we'd be well off and I might add that is not a 190 lb Kenny Irons, or Lorenzo Booker its a Leonard, Bush, Hunt, lastly Turner (too much to give up they want a 1st and a 3rd)
Nobody loves Curtis more than me but I think he's overrated. There's a reason his career ypc was 4.0, he was a grinder and damn good at it. But to put him amongst the greatest runningbacks of all time I think is just not right.

Herm and Hackett were the reason that Curtis had so many yards, and the reason his career ended so short. In his rushing title season, when Lamont Jordan was there in the background, he led the league in rushing attempts by such a margin that its almost criminal at his age. 31 year old runningbacks shouldn't be leading the league in carries when you drafted an heir in the second round a year earlier

As I said he was what he was, a consistent and reliable runningback that was there for the whole season and played through any injury. He never dominated the league at any point or had the ability to create touchdowns out of nothing. He is not on the level of such greats as Barry, Brown, Dickerson or Payton in terms of greatness by any means.

And don't knock Kenny Irons, he is remarkably similar to Curtis when he came out of college. Nothing would make me happier on draft day than to see Irons on this team.
If you attribute any success to Paul Hackett, youre crazy! The reason they didn't use Lamont Jordan that year was because if he came in and played well we would have had to have franchised him instead of abraham (and wouldn't have gotten mangold) but they didn't want to franchise a backup so they made it a risk for team to take someone who had very little touches (my argument against turner, but i wouldn'tmind him)

Now in 2004 Curtis' margin of attempts was 10 which is not a margin that is criminal let alone big (more than rudi johnson: so you were wrong about that and in 2003 Jamal lewis had 20+ more carries than ahman green) that year curtis had a 4.6 ypc avg/LT had a 3.9 ypc average.

A 4.0 ypc for a rb is great for a career, its the benchmark. grinders are
under 4 and are like jerome bettis. Emmitt smith the rushing king and revered by many (not all) as the best running back of all time (a big play RB) averaged 4.2 ypc for his career.

Curtis Martin

Seasons among the league's top 10
Rushes: 1995-2, 1996-7, 1998-3, 1999-2, 2000-6, 2001-4, 2003-8, 2004-1
Rushing yards: 1995-3, 1996-9, 1997-8, 1998-8, 1999-2, 2001-2, 2004-1
Rushing TDs: 1995-3, 1996-2, 1998-8t, 2000-10t, 2001-4t, 2004-8t
Yards from scrimmage: 1995-5, 1996-8, 1997-10, 1998-6, 1999-5, 2000-9, 2001-4, 2004-3
Rush/Receive TDs: 1995-6, 1996-2, 2001-10t, 2004-7t

Among the league's all-time top 50
Rushes: 3
Rushing yards: 4
Rushing TDs: 12t
Yards from scrimmage: 7
Rush/Receive TDs: 19t


Kenny Irons is not like Curtis Martin coming out he's under 200 pounds Curtis was 215 and like i said not a good fit for our offense because he and leon are too similar in size, a 1-2 punch is speed (cutback) & power (between the tackles) I think Irons will be okay in the NFL but he doesnt give us the balanced (between the tackles) & multi-faceted attack of thunder and lightning.
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Old 01-29-2007, 08:34 PM    (permalink
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Wow I really disagree with a lot of your rankings as far as rounds go hcbrad.
I told you theyre not my rankings they're from Mel (Kiper)
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Old 01-29-2007, 08:52 PM    (permalink
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I'm pretty sure the large majority of people would pick Jim Brown, Barry Sanders, and probably even LT over Smith.
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Old 01-29-2007, 09:28 PM    (permalink
FlutiesDropKick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyjetsguy27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluedevil$
One thing we lacked last year was a big target in the red zone. If I was avail with our first 2nd rounder, would you consider taking Dwayne Bowe? I don't think I would because we have bigger holes to fill, just throwing it out there for speculation.

One guy I want is Jason Hill from Wazzu. I heard he was really impressive during the Senior Bowl practices.
first off, dwayne bowe is gonna be a 2nd rounder, and i dont want to waste such a high pick on a guy that had such a bad senior bowl week. also, ive been talking about jason hill for the past month, before the senior bowl even began. he has great hands, runs great routes, a bigtime team player (realllllllllllly nice guy), and is a great run blocker.
ok i just got around to reading this and have to comment. Bowe will be a first rounder if he tests moderately, no doubt in my mind of that. Also how could you possibly say he had a bad senior bowl week? He was easily the best player on the field at his position, maybe even the game.

Now that i got that off my back I do like Jason Hill, his productivity alone makes him a solid pick regardless of how he tests. Another guy from the senior bowl i like is Brandon Myles from West Virginia. He didn;t get the chance to play much in college with the focus on the running game there but if given a chance he really could shine.
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Old 01-29-2007, 09:35 PM    (permalink
shavedaeyebrow2
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Originally Posted by Johnny4
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Originally Posted by shavedaeyebrow2
You do realize the "Prime" of a person's career is when they are playing the best they've played. Let's look at TJ's career so far......

2000- 112 Attempts--373 Yards--2 Touchdowns
2001- 112 Attempts--280 Yards--5 Touchdowns
2002- 138 Attempts--511 Yards--2 Touchdowns
2003- 137 Attempts--627 Yards--3 Touchdowns
2004- 240 Attempts--948 Yards--7 Touchdowns
2005- 314 Attempts--1335 Yards--9 Touchdowns
2006- 296 Attempts--1210 Yards--6 Touchdowns


That is his prime of his career. His TDs went down because he is splitting carries with "The Bust" Cedric Benson. His stats (without starting ONE game)...

2006- 157 Attempts--647 Yards--6 Touchdowns

Give him a full-time job and he'd easily break 1,000. You are right, no one took Jones in the first round, but many runningbacks weren't taken in the 1st round.

As for Deuce (at least spell his name right), I'll admit he isn't what used to be, but he is still a young runningback who is a top 10 runningback in the league. Deuce is only on the decline because they have Bush so he will probably never recreate his old numbers. Just because he had surgery does not mean he is done (I can't believe a Jets fan is saying that an injured player can't be what he used to be).

Now onto your playmakers theory. You say Parker, Ward, and Holmes. We have Miller, Cotchery (who was a huge playmaker this year), Coles, Washington, Brad Smith.
What we have are specialists. Out of the Jet players you just mentioned, only Cotchery was on the field 80-85% of the time this season. I don't know about you, but every fantasy league I've ever been in, the Franchise players go first, then there is a run on RB's that are left over. I think I made my point. Nobody thought TJ was going to have this good of a season. Anyone who thinks Bears fans aren't dissappionted in CB so far are nuts. Take a trip over to there message board during the season.My point
Yeah, you're right. They really do hate Cedric Benson :roll:

Quote:
Originally Posted by bearfan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurricane Ditka
Alright, after today's effort, I think Jones is gonna stick around for a while. I don't think he'll start next year, but splitting the carries 60-40 Benson, and our rushing attack can generate 2,000+ yards. We should have stuck to the run like this all season.
I agree, while Benson hasnt shown the big run ability as much as Jones has at points, he is more consistant IMO on getting yards. He is a beast! And it takes more than 1 guy to take him down, while Jones most of the time goes down on contact. Benson will be great
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurricane Ditka
Benson's not going to get the credit he should, his ypc wasn't very good, but he played one hell of a game. Alot of his runs came at the end when they knew we were going to run, and during our slump, when the Saints had momentum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBleedNavyandOrange
Wow.

That is the way the Bears need to play. Aside from that 8 minutes or so from the last minute of the first half through midway through the 3rd quarter, I could not have asked for anything more.

I was saying all week that the play calling should look like Benson-Benson-Jones-Benson-Benson-Benson-Jones-Jones-Berrian-Benson-Benson-Jones-Benson-Jones-Clark,
and that's pretty much what it was. 196 yards rushing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurricane Ditka
Alright as I do so often, I'm officially changing my tune on the issue of Thomas Jones. I think he'll stick with this team next year and beyond. How ever I still maintain that Benson will be named the starter come training camp, as we saw today when both get 15+ carries good things will happen. Benson's ypc isn't as high, but the bulk of his carries came when we had nothing going offensively and couldn't block the Saint's D-Line to save their lives. We should have been using Jones and Benson like this earlier.
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Old 01-29-2007, 09:59 PM    (permalink
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Johnny4 got burned!!!

look man, you had a good run but you've been not only denied by popular opinion but also by quotes from those you cited as well as cold hard statistcal evidence. TIme to give it up.
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Old 01-29-2007, 10:04 PM    (permalink
Zim3031
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Originally Posted by hcbrad08
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Originally Posted by Zim3031
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Originally Posted by hcbrad08
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Curtis Martin was never this explosive playmaker that you speak of. He was never the kind of guy that would singlehandedly take over the game or score a touchdown from anywhere in the field. He was never regarded as a great explosive playmaker or as the best runningback in the league.

He was what he was, a consistent runningback that carried a stable rushing attack for 10 years, and that's something special in its own.
Curtis Martin is one of the best RB's of all time. Let's stop taking anything away from him! If he was healthy he'd be Mangini's starting RB and would go over 1000 yards an 11th time. He wasn't a Terrell Davis playmaker but before he hit 30 like most RBs he had his fair share of 40,50,60 yard runs he's an immortal RB so leave it alone. Also he did win the rushing title in 2004 which is definitely an indicator of who the best RB in the league is (he beat out Shaun Alexander and even if Alexander got that last carry he still would only have a tie with Martin) He was amazing and its hard to fill those shoes but I think with the right compliment to Washington we'd be well off and I might add that is not a 190 lb Kenny Irons, or Lorenzo Booker its a Leonard, Bush, Hunt, lastly Turner (too much to give up they want a 1st and a 3rd)
Nobody loves Curtis more than me but I think he's overrated. There's a reason his career ypc was 4.0, he was a grinder and damn good at it. But to put him amongst the greatest runningbacks of all time I think is just not right.

Herm and Hackett were the reason that Curtis had so many yards, and the reason his career ended so short. In his rushing title season, when Lamont Jordan was there in the background, he led the league in rushing attempts by such a margin that its almost criminal at his age. 31 year old runningbacks shouldn't be leading the league in carries when you drafted an heir in the second round a year earlier

As I said he was what he was, a consistent and reliable runningback that was there for the whole season and played through any injury. He never dominated the league at any point or had the ability to create touchdowns out of nothing. He is not on the level of such greats as Barry, Brown, Dickerson or Payton in terms of greatness by any means.

And don't knock Kenny Irons, he is remarkably similar to Curtis when he came out of college. Nothing would make me happier on draft day than to see Irons on this team.
If you attribute any success to Paul Hackett, youre crazy! The reason they didn't use Lamont Jordan that year was because if he came in and played well we would have had to have franchised him instead of abraham (and wouldn't have gotten mangold) but they didn't want to franchise a backup so they made it a risk for team to take someone who had very little touches (my argument against turner, but i wouldn'tmind him)

Now in 2004 Curtis' margin of attempts was 10 which is not a margin that is criminal let alone big (more than rudi johnson: so you were wrong about that and in 2003 Jamal lewis had 20+ more carries than ahman green) that year curtis had a 4.6 ypc avg/LT had a 3.9 ypc average.

A 4.0 ypc for a rb is great for a career, its the benchmark. grinders are
under 4 and are like jerome bettis. Emmitt smith the rushing king and revered by many (not all) as the best running back of all time (a big play RB) averaged 4.2 ypc for his career.

Curtis Martin

Seasons among the league's top 10
Rushes: 1995-2, 1996-7, 1998-3, 1999-2, 2000-6, 2001-4, 2003-8, 2004-1
Rushing yards: 1995-3, 1996-9, 1997-8, 1998-8, 1999-2, 2001-2, 2004-1
Rushing TDs: 1995-3, 1996-2, 1998-8t, 2000-10t, 2001-4t, 2004-8t
Yards from scrimmage: 1995-5, 1996-8, 1997-10, 1998-6, 1999-5, 2000-9, 2001-4, 2004-3
Rush/Receive TDs: 1995-6, 1996-2, 2001-10t, 2004-7t

Among the league's all-time top 50
Rushes: 3
Rushing yards: 4
Rushing TDs: 12t
Yards from scrimmage: 7
Rush/Receive TDs: 19t


Kenny Irons is not like Curtis Martin coming out he's under 200 pounds Curtis was 215 and like i said not a good fit for our offense because he and leon are too similar in size, a 1-2 punch is speed (cutback) & power (between the tackles) I think Irons will be okay in the NFL but he doesnt give us the balanced (between the tackles) & multi-faceted attack of thunder and lightning.
I Attribute Curtis' success to Paul Hackett because he and Herm ran him at virtually every oppurtunity possible, thus inflating his stats. That hardly seems crazy, rather logical.

I have no idea what you're talking about regarding Jordan, when you have a 31 year old runningback as your starter and a young talented player that is widely regarded as his heir apparent, wou have to give the guy shot. Maybe we could've extended Jordan long term and we'd have our franchise back. Instead we chose to run Curtis Martin into the ground, run Jordan right out of town, and leave us in a situation with no definitive runningback. But that digresses too much.

And Emmit Smith was a very similar back to Curtis when you break it down, however I don't think anyone really thinks of him as the greatest back of all time. I'm talking about the likes of Barry Sanders, Walter Payton, Jim Brown, Eric Dickerson. Those were the truly great backs. Emmit Smith had a similar career to Martin, just with even more success.

I don't quite recall Curtis being 215 pounds coming out of college, I believe he was more in the 205 range. If you provide a source I will happily admit that you are right. However, watching Kenny Irons he seems exactly like curtis. He hits the hole hard, works for every yard, and can make a guy a miss. He is about 200lbs but he runs like he's 20 more. His running style is really not a thing like Leon.

His statistics are very nice and all however as I have stated at no point was he ever a dominant runningback. When was he ever the truly best runningback in the league, the only time when he was really close to that was when he led the league in rushing, and even then it is skeptical.

And just for the record, I do believe that Curtis belongs in the Hall of Fame, his ability to carry a teams' stable rushing attack for that many years is a truly great accomplishment. However what you are saying is that Curtis Martin was an explosive dynamic back in the mold of Barry, LT, Brown etc, and that's just not true.
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Old 01-29-2007, 10:20 PM    (permalink
shavedaeyebrow2
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Alright Jets fans, lets be friends here for just a few posts......

Who would you say are the 3 players that were the reasons that the Jets did not reach the Super Bowl?

Not just in the playoff game, but for the entire season.

For me.....

#1- Kimo Von Oelhoffen- If I can describe him in one word, it'd be D-Bag. He absolutely sucked this season. Every single time our opponents ran it to his side, they'd get 5 yards at least. Can anyone name a few times where he actually put pressure on the QB or made a big play on defense? Thought so...

#2-Chad Pennington- Love the guy, had a great season considering what he had to overcome, but all the interceptions and bad passes disappointed me. I don't know the exact amount, but I think he had 17 interceptions this year? That is not what Chad is known for. He was once known as the most accurate QB in the NFL, but this year, he did not back that up. Though he did have the most yards he's ever had (may be talking out of my ass, ha, but I think it was), the interceptions were momentum killers and left us in bad spots. (ie. The Bears game, Chad's first EVER INT in the redzone. That one killed us.) I feel very confident that with an even healthier arm, he will slowly go back to the accurate QB he once was.

#3- Jonathan Vilma - Again, another guy I love, but he did not play as great as we hoped he would. He more than likely will play better next year, and immensely help the defense, but he did not do that last year. WHEN, and yes, I say WHEN, Vilma becomes fully adjusted to the 3-4, we will be an elite defense (as long as Kimo is gone).

#4&5 - Justin McCareins & Kevan Barlow - I know I said 3 players, but I just hate these guys. I blame all of our failures on them . O, and let's not forget Kevan Barlow. If I can quote myself from when we first signed him (think it went something like this)
"**** **** **** ****, WHY THE **** DID WE HAVE TO ******* SIGN HIM? HE ******* SUCKS"

I still stand by those words

So, who are YOUR top 3! (Or 4 and 5 if you hate Kevan Barlow and McCareins)
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Old 01-29-2007, 10:23 PM    (permalink
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Kevan Barlow and his failure to reach 3 yards per carry pissed me off immensly. I hate him. He tip toes. He's so bad. Wow. Cut him.
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Old 01-29-2007, 10:23 PM    (permalink
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for those too lazy to click the link to my mock draft


I will be trying to make this realistic, so I'm sorry to say the Jets will not get all of the top FAs this offseason.

Free Agent Signings:

1. Daniel Graham TE

Coming from a Patriot team that loves to use the TE, Mangini will sign one of his former players to help out at the TE position that needs a little help. Don't get me wrong, Chris Baker is alright, but he could definitely be improved.

2. Vince Manuwai LG

This will be the BIG free agent signing for the Jets this offseason. The Jets offensive line has holes at only two spots and that is LG and RT. The Jets will try to fill those holes and get one of the best free agents on the market. Pete Kendall is getting old and has been garbage. Now we gain a young Vince Manuwai to take his place and will soon be on our way to one of the top offensive lines in the NFL (Ferguson-Manuwai-Mangold-Moore-Black).

3. Jordan Black RT

The BIGGEST need on the Jets offense is RT. Anthony Clement and Adrian Jones have been pretty bad to say the least. With the signing of Black, we have officially completed our offensive line. Black comes from what used to be the best offensive line (Chiefs) in the NFL to the Jets new and improved o-line. He will be a starter right away.

4. Michael "the Burner" Turner RB

At this point, the Jets do not know what they will get out of Leon Washington and Cedric Houston. This may change as the season goes on, but for right now, running back is conisidered a need. Turner, at 237 pounds, has great speed and is a very valuable player. It is not known that he will be able to carry the entire load at running back, but that is where Leon, Cedric, and Barlow come in. The Jets will more than likely use a 3 running back system with Turner getting the bulk of the carries (Turner 15-20 Carries, Leon 5-10 Carries, Cedric 2-7).

Other Possibilities:
-Max Starks RT
-Adalius Thomas OLB
-Eric Steinbach OG
-Derrick Dockery OG
-Asante Samuel CB

The Draft:
Round 1- LaMarr Woodley DE/OLB, Michigan

As a result of the Jets failing to sign a pass rusher, the Jets decide to fulfill that need through the draft. Victor Hobson has been a disappointment at this point in his career. The former 2nd Round pick will now ride the bench and help the team as much as he can. Woodley will immediately put a SOLB to help out the Jets AWFUL pass rushing. Hopefully, with this pick, the Jets can complete their LB group and stop worrying their lack of pass rush. Many may question Woodley's ability to play the 3-4 but I feel that Woodley definitely has the tools to be one of the league's elite.

Round 2a (from the Redskins)- Amobi Okoye NT, Louisville

Now that the Jets improved the pass rush, they need to improve their run stopping ability. The most important part of the 3-4 defense is the NT and the Jets have virtually no one. Robertson has looked impressive at times, but other times has looked pitiful. Okoye is one of the few players in this draft who could possibly play 3-4 NT. Another plus is that he is only 19 years old! Okoye had the chance to go to Harvard so he has the smarts that the Jets look for. It may take a few years to get to where the Jets want him to be, but when he is ready, he will be among the elite.

Round 2b- Daymeion Hughes CB, California

The Jets pass defense is alright but nothing special. If Justin Miller is going to keep returning kicks, he can not start. Andre Dyson is a journey man so who knows how long he will be here. David Barrett is getting up there in age and isn't the best man to man corner. Drew Coleman has been a nice surprise for a 6th round pick and has been a starter throughout this year. The Jets need a CB that could possibly play #1 or play as the #2 corner until Dyson is gone.

Round 3- Steve Smith WR, USC

Jerricho Cotchery has emerged as the future for the Jets at WR but with Coles about to enter his 30s, the Jets need to look for a future #2. Both Clemens and Pennington don't have the greatest arms so they need possession receivers. Though the Jets have Justin McCareins and Brad Smith, Brad Smith will continue to do what he has done and possibly move up to an Antwaan Randle El role as the #3 WR and come in for trick plays. McCareins has been a big disappointment so he will be traded or cut which will leave the #3 WR spot for Steve Smith. Brad Smith isn't ready for #3 yet so in 2-3 years, look for both Smiths to move up the depth chart.

*Round 4 (Lost to 49ers for Kevan Barlow)*

Round 5- Jay Moore DE

Shaun Ellis and Kimo von Oelhoffen are getting up there in age (especially Kimo). Ellis has another 3-4 good years left and Kimo has maybe one. The Jets will need a 3-4 DE to replace them when their time is done so this is a pick that builds for the future.

Round 6a- BPA

Round 6b- BPA

Round 7- BPA

New Additions:

If that was our offseason, would you guys still be happy?
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Old 01-29-2007, 10:24 PM    (permalink
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Okoye in the second will never happen. Top 20 pick.
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Old 01-29-2007, 10:26 PM    (permalink
FlutiesDropKick
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i'd be happy. I love okoye but idk about his ability to play the nose. Also if you switched him and woodley it would be the only chance of him in NY and even thatwould be a huge stretch
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Old 01-29-2007, 10:29 PM    (permalink
shavedaeyebrow2
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Remember, that mock was from November when Woodley was on top of everyone's lists
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Old 01-29-2007, 10:32 PM    (permalink
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Remember, that mock was from November when Woodley was on top of everyone's lists
Oh well then it makes sense because Okoye is a top 20 pick after the Senior Bowl.
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