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Old 05-10-2007, 05:01 PM    (permalink
GB12
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Originally Posted by Vikes99ej View Post
Sorry, as long as the Vikings, Lions, and Packers are in the division, the Bears basically have a free pass. We have a new (and definitely unproven)QB, the Packers still have Favre and a weak D, and the Lions are still the Lions.
Weak D? Our Defense wasn't weak last year and it should get better with Jenkins starting over KGB, the addition of Harrell, and the year of experience for our very young team. Not to sound like a homer, but I expect a top ten defense. If you are going to mention a weakness say the offensive run game.
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Old 05-10-2007, 05:01 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by sweetness34 View Post
The Lions have no line (apart from Rogers) on either side of the ball. Skill guys are great, but having good lines on both sides of the ball are key to having a successful football team.
I wouldn't say the Lions D-Line is bad considering that Redding/Rogers is a beastly DT tandem and Dewayne White is a solid defensive end. And well, the O-Line is far better than it was last year so it's not the weakness on the Lions, that would be ILB and the secondary.

Oh yeah and the Bears will win the division, what else is new.
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Old 05-11-2007, 12:00 AM    (permalink
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i wouldnt count on the bears just taking over again, they lost one of there backs, could lose Briggs, and the jinx form losing the SB.
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Old 05-11-2007, 12:17 AM    (permalink
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It's possible the Bears dont dominate I guess. They have Rex Grossman at QB, Benson is completely unproven, teams might figure how to stop Hester scoring.

There are serious questions over their offense, its nice when you get to play 6 of your games against junk teams, but the Bears offense is one big question mark. How will the Briggs suspension and how will Harris and Brown come back from their injuries also is a factor.

That said, Vikings are just as bad on offense, probably worse given we are actually worse at QB to start the season, just as bad at RG and RT and relying on a pair of rookies to improve the WR spot. It is very conceivable that the Vikes are worse at QB and WR than at the same time last year. Defense will be solid, but it's all "ifs". If Udeze performs, if James is healthy, if Greenway is healthy(and any good), if we can get anything out of our safeties, if Henderson can play MLB this time around, if Griffin is starter worthy. Vikings will probably win 4-6 games but could just as easily win 10 or 0.

Packers have a lot of holes and questions, but they are just a few pieces from at least challenging the Bears. OL should be stronger, WR should be stronger and Favre has fallen as far as he is going to. Defensively they have Hawk, so they have a chance. They need to get production from 3 of their rookies though I think to have any real chance of challenging.

Who knows with the Lions. Sad that they have the 2nd best QB in the division. They have the best WR's, they have the most proven RB and probably the best RB group. OL looks good on paper. Defense is the big question for them. They look particularly bad against the pass to me, which is a non-factor in divisional games other than the Packers, but will hurt them when they play "real" teams.

If the Packers can consistently stop the run, they can very easily stop the other teams in the division scoring. If any team can get a consistent pass attack going they will get the same advantage. I can see there being some really ugly football though because the Bears offense is horrible looking, the Vikings looks worse, who knows what to expect from the Lions and the Packers live and die on Favre's every breath.

In short, who knows what to expect.
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Old 05-11-2007, 11:39 AM    (permalink
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Ok here's a bit of a breakdown. I'd put more time into it, but I don't want to.

Passing Game
1)Detroit
2)Green Bay
3)Chicago
4)Minnesota

Analysis
-Wow. What a piece of monkey crap. Detroit really gets the nod by default and with CJ and RW it's pretty hard to argue that. I'm not a Kitna fan at all, and expect Stanton to be starting by week 9-10. The offensive line is still a huge question mark. While nobody can question the CJ pick, is Jeff Backus really a franchise left tackle? Does the addition of George Foster and Edwin Mutillo really fix what was arguably the worst offensive line last year? They've got a some studs out on the end, but Mike Martz's offense was golden in St.Louis because of Orlando Pace and Marshall Faulk. They don't have either of those guys in Detroit. Green Bay and Chicago are really neck and neck here. The Bears line is a little better at pass blocking and the Packers have a huge question mark at Tight End where I think the loss of David Martin will hurt more than some might think. Franks really isn't even serviceable and it's a huge head scratcher why they did nothing here. That being said, Favre is still better than Grossman, and the Packers offense is built around the pass while Chicago's is built around the run, so I give the nod to Green Bay here. As for Chicago, people will talk about Grossman but it's really a collaborative effort. Will Olsen be able to stretch the field enough to free up room for Berrian over the top? Can Moose still cut it as a bail out guy for Rexy? Is there enough depth at WR? There is a lot to be positive about here, but lots of question marks as well. Then we come to Minnesota. Ey yi yi! Tavaris Jackson drops back to pass, hits Bobby Wade for three yards, and the Vikings come out to punt. Expect to hear that a lot. I'm actually a Troy Williamson fan. That's about all the positives I can give out here.

Running Game
1)Minnesota
2)Chicago
3)Green Bay
4)Detroit

Analysis
-People might initially question Detroit below Green Bay but lets face it, Martz doesn't run the ball. They were dead last in rushing last year, in part because they were always coming back from behind, but in part because they just don't commit to running the ball. The injury of Kevin Jones is of a big concern, and Tatum Bell, while a good option off the bench, will be hurt by the poor offensive line play in Detroit. All this being said, is anyone overwhelmed by Vernand Morency and Brandon Jackson. I actually like both guys, but the Packers division hopes for next year took a hit when Buffalo selected Marshawn Lynch. For a team that has few playmakers on offense they really can't afford to not have a dynamic back in the backfield and are really hoping that Jackson develops into that guy. I actually had Minnesota and Chicago closer than some might think. The Bears had a more consistent running game last year and while people are obviously going to get excited about Peterson, I would expect he and Taylor to see a LOT of 8-9 man fronts. That being said, Benson has yet to prove that he can be "the man" and 2 is usually better than one, so Minnesota takes it.


Overall Offense
1)Chicago
2)Green Bay
3)Detroit
4)Minnesota

-Whaaaaa?!?!? How can I put Chicago #1 when they aren't the best at the run or the pass? Simple. Balance. Detroit can't (or doesn't) run. Minnesota has no pass offense at all, and Green Bay actually has less playmakers than Chicago. If I was confident in Detroit's ability to keep Kitna upright I'd put them higher. I'm not. Chicago's offense gets run down but it's actually in the top half of the league, and this is not much of an offensive division.

Run Defense
1)Minnesota
2)Chicago
3)Green Bay
4)Detroit

-Minnesota was so good at stopping the run last year it was remarkable. I think the loss of Tomlin will hurt, probably more than people are acknowledging, but come on...I'm also excited to see how Greenway plays next year. They made a semi-bold move in letting Napoleon Harris walk and appointing Greenway the starter on the outside. Chicago is still a top 10 run defense and I think the addition of Archuleta in the box will help, but we're not as good as Minnesota and I'll be the first to admit that. If Briggs is gonzo we could dip a bit, maybe even below Green Bay, but that hasn't happened yet so for now it stands. I like Green Bay's defense in general, and am a huge A.J. Hawk fan. Lots of good defensive players in this division, especially at the linebacker position. Detroit has lots of question marks, and none of them bigger than their ability to stop the run. The linebacker position is a huge question mark and while they've got some defensive lineman that can get after the QB, none of them are particularly known for run-stuffing.

Pass Defense
1)Chicago
2)Green Bay
3)Detroit
4)Minnesota

Chicago is the clear #1 here. Good passrushers, good corners, the only question mark is the safety position but there's lots of depth and competition here. Green Bay has some real questions at the safety position, and while Nick Collins gets a lot of hype on here he had a lot of games last year where he looked absolutely lost. I think they could have done more to add speed to their secondary, but the Aaron Rouse pick was a good one. Detroit is kinda eh...I think Stanley Wilson could emerge as a good cover 2 corner but he needs to step up this year or he'll be replaced the next. Who is the other corner? Is Fernando Bryant still a starter there? If so, why? I like Daniel Bullocks at safety..I like him a lot actually, but Kennoy Kennedy already looks to be a bit of a free agency bust and another case where it's clear Millen really doesn't understand how to find talent that fits scheme. Minnesota should have been better against the pass. I guess it's just age catching up to them. Either way, they didn't get any younger this year, and I think it'll be second verse same as the first this year.

Overall Defense
1)Chicago
2)Minnesota
3)Green Bay
4)Detroit

-Please don't get snipey here Packers fans. It's close between Minnesota and Green Bay. I think both have good young defenses, but Minnesota is just so beastly against the run they get my tip o' the hat.

Special Teams
1)Chicago
2)Detroit
3)Green Bay
4)Minnesota

This is basically Chicago and everyone else, although Detroit actually has solid special teams. Devin Hester made Green Bay and Minny look silly. Minny seems to always have problems on special teams.

Overall Record
1)Chicago 11-5
2)Green Bay 8-8
3)Minnesota 6-10
4)Detroit 5-11

I actually didn't think I'd go this high on Chicago, but the more I look over the schedule the more I think 11 games is very reasonable. I was ready to anoint Green Bay the biggest competitor, and I guess they still are, but this was just a bad off-season for the short term. Ted Thompson's moves may pay off in the end but they needed Randy Moss and Marshawn Lynch and they got neither. They are still a talent strapped team and I just don't see them taking that next step this year. Minnesota and Detroit actually have a good number of things to be positive about, but they also have huge holes and either team could easily lose 12-13 games next year. I just don't see either team not having a losing record, not this year anyway.
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Old 05-11-2007, 11:51 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
Ok here's a bit of a breakdown. I'd put more time into it, but I don't want to.

Passing Game
1)Detroit
2)Green Bay
3)Chicago
4)Minnesota

Analysis
-Wow. What a piece of monkey crap. Detroit really gets the nod by default and with CJ and RW it's pretty hard to argue that. I'm not a Kitna fan at all, and expect Stanton to be starting by week 9-10. The offensive line is still a huge question mark. While nobody can question the CJ pick, is Jeff Backus really a franchise left tackle? Does the addition of George Foster and Edwin Mutillo really fix what was arguably the worst offensive line last year? They've got a some studs out on the end, but Mike Martz's offense was golden in St.Louis because of Orlando Pace and Marshall Faulk. They don't have either of those guys in Detroit. Green Bay and Chicago are really neck and neck here. The Bears line is a little better at pass blocking and the Packers have a huge question mark at Tight End where I think the loss of David Martin will hurt more than some might think. Franks really isn't even serviceable and it's a huge head scratcher why they did nothing here. That being said, Favre is still better than Grossman, and the Packers offense is built around the pass while Chicago's is built around the run, so I give the nod to Green Bay here. As for Chicago, people will talk about Grossman but it's really a collaborative effort. Will Olsen be able to stretch the field enough to free up room for Berrian over the top? Can Moose still cut it as a bail out guy for Rexy? Is there enough depth at WR? There is a lot to be positive about here, but lots of question marks as well. Then we come to Minnesota. Ey yi yi! Tavaris Jackson drops back to pass, hits Bobby Wade for three yards, and the Vikings come out to punt. Expect to hear that a lot. I'm actually a Troy Williamson fan. That's about all the positives I can give out here.

Running Game
1)Minnesota
2)Chicago
3)Green Bay
4)Detroit

Analysis
-People might initially question Detroit below Green Bay but lets face it, Martz doesn't run the ball. They were dead last in rushing last year, in part because they were always coming back from behind, but in part because they just don't commit to running the ball. The injury of Kevin Jones is of a big concern, and Tatum Bell, while a good option off the bench, will be hurt by the poor offensive line play in Detroit. All this being said, is anyone overwhelmed by Vernand Morency and Brandon Jackson. I actually like both guys, but the Packers division hopes for next year took a hit when Buffalo selected Marshawn Lynch. For a team that has few playmakers on offense they really can't afford to not have a dynamic back in the backfield and are really hoping that Jackson develops into that guy. I actually had Minnesota and Chicago closer than some might think. The Bears had a more consistent running game last year and while people are obviously going to get excited about Peterson, I would expect he and Taylor to see a LOT of 8-9 man fronts. That being said, Benson has yet to prove that he can be "the man" and 2 is usually better than one, so Minnesota takes it.


Overall Offense
1)Chicago
2)Green Bay
3)Detroit
4)Minnesota

-Whaaaaa?!?!? How can I put Chicago #1 when they aren't the best at the run or the pass? Simple. Balance. Detroit can't (or doesn't) run. Minnesota has no pass offense at all, and Green Bay actually has less playmakers than Chicago. If I was confident in Detroit's ability to keep Kitna upright I'd put them higher. I'm not. Chicago's offense gets run down but it's actually in the top half of the league, and this is not much of an offensive division.

Run Defense
1)Minnesota
2)Chicago
3)Green Bay
4)Detroit

-Minnesota was so good at stopping the run last year it was remarkable. I think the loss of Tomlin will hurt, probably more than people are acknowledging, but come on...I'm also excited to see how Greenway plays next year. They made a semi-bold move in letting Napoleon Harris walk and appointing Greenway the starter on the outside. Chicago is still a top 10 run defense and I think the addition of Archuleta in the box will help, but we're not as good as Minnesota and I'll be the first to admit that. If Briggs is gonzo we could dip a bit, maybe even below Green Bay, but that hasn't happened yet so for now it stands. I like Green Bay's defense in general, and am a huge A.J. Hawk fan. Lots of good defensive players in this division, especially at the linebacker position. Detroit has lots of question marks, and none of them bigger than their ability to stop the run. The linebacker position is a huge question mark and while they've got some defensive lineman that can get after the QB, none of them are particularly known for run-stuffing.

Pass Defense
1)Chicago
2)Green Bay
3)Detroit
4)Minnesota

Chicago is the clear #1 here. Good passrushers, good corners, the only question mark is the safety position but there's lots of depth and competition here. Green Bay has some real questions at the safety position, and while Nick Collins gets a lot of hype on here he had a lot of games last year where he looked absolutely lost. I think they could have done more to add speed to their secondary, but the Aaron Rouse pick was a good one. Detroit is kinda eh...I think Stanley Wilson could emerge as a good cover 2 corner but he needs to step up this year or he'll be replaced the next. Who is the other corner? Is Fernando Bryant still a starter there? If so, why? I like Daniel Bullocks at safety..I like him a lot actually, but Kennoy Kennedy already looks to be a bit of a free agency bust and another case where it's clear Millen really doesn't understand how to find talent that fits scheme. Minnesota should have been better against the pass. I guess it's just age catching up to them. Either way, they didn't get any younger this year, and I think it'll be second verse same as the first this year.

Overall Defense
1)Chicago
2)Minnesota
3)Green Bay
4)Detroit

-Please don't get snipey here Packers fans. It's close between Minnesota and Green Bay. I think both have good young defenses, but Minnesota is just so beastly against the run they get my tip o' the hat.

Special Teams
1)Chicago
2)Detroit
3)Green Bay
4)Minnesota

This is basically Chicago and everyone else, although Detroit actually has solid special teams. Devin Hester made Green Bay and Minny look silly. Minny seems to always have problems on special teams.

Overall Record
1)Chicago 11-5
2)Green Bay 8-8
3)Minnesota 6-10
4)Detroit 5-11

I actually didn't think I'd go this high on Chicago, but the more I look over the schedule the more I think 11 games is very reasonable. I was ready to anoint Green Bay the biggest competitor, and I guess they still are, but this was just a bad off-season for the short term. Ted Thompson's moves may pay off in the end but they needed Randy Moss and Marshawn Lynch and they got neither. They are still a talent strapped team and I just don't see them taking that next step this year. Minnesota and Detroit actually have a good number of things to be positive about, but they also have huge holes and either team could easily lose 12-13 games next year. I just don't see either team not having a losing record, not this year anyway.
Nice overall analysis. I think the defence's (outside of Detroit) will be very strong in the NFC North. I could easily see either Minnesota, Chicago, or Green Bay having the best defence in the division. All will be in the upper echeleon in the league from a talent perspective also.

The biggest question mark for every NFC North is the offence. Every single team has HUGE question marks on offence and that will be the determining factor for this division.

This division is getting closer and closer in terms of talent every year and I wouldn't be surprised if the difference between first and last in this division was only a couple of games.
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Old 05-11-2007, 06:17 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Bengals1690 View Post
the lions will bring back the greatest show on turf, the packers will make a last season miracle run for brett favre, and the vikes will suck.
This man has a great mind

All NFC North Team
QB:Brett Favre GB- Has 2nd best WR core in division and is just as talented as the other QB's in the division. OL will show improvements too.
Prediction: 3800yds 20tds 15ints Honorable Mention: Jon Kitna DET

RB: Kevin Jones DET- Its boom or bust year for him and the WR's should spread out the D for him.
Prediction: 1400yds 10tds

RB: Cedric Benson CHI- Same story for Benson. Better line though.
Prediction: 1300yds 11tds Only reason i didnt say AD/Taylor is because they could share carries therefore deflating stats.

TE: Greg Olsen CHI- Will have an immediate impact and become Grossman's best friend and replace the aging Clark.
Prediciton: 50rec 550yds 4tds Honorable Mention: Desmond Clark(Really poor TE's in this division)

WR: Roy Williams DET- Kitna will have alot of passing yards this year and most of his passes will go to Williams if he is healthy.
80rec 1200yds 8tds

WR: Donald Driver GB- Jennings will be a bigger threat and will get double teams off Driver, but at the same take catches away from him.
75rec 1200 6tds

WR: Calvin Johnson DET- WIll have a Randy Moss-type impact. Furrey could also go here, but CJ is more talented.
60 1000 6tds


More to come. If you think a player should be on here just tell me. I really just made it for fun
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Old 05-11-2007, 06:21 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
Ok here's a bit of a breakdown. I'd put more time into it, but I don't want to.

Passing Game
1)Detroit
2)Green Bay
3)Chicago
4)Minnesota

Analysis
-Wow. What a piece of monkey crap. Detroit really gets the nod by default and with CJ and RW it's pretty hard to argue that. I'm not a Kitna fan at all, and expect Stanton to be starting by week 9-10. The offensive line is still a huge question mark. While nobody can question the CJ pick, is Jeff Backus really a franchise left tackle? Does the addition of George Foster and Edwin Mutillo really fix what was arguably the worst offensive line last year? They've got a some studs out on the end, but Mike Martz's offense was golden in St.Louis because of Orlando Pace and Marshall Faulk. They don't have either of those guys in Detroit. Green Bay and Chicago are really neck and neck here. The Bears line is a little better at pass blocking and the Packers have a huge question mark at Tight End where I think the loss of David Martin will hurt more than some might think. Franks really isn't even serviceable and it's a huge head scratcher why they did nothing here. That being said, Favre is still better than Grossman, and the Packers offense is built around the pass while Chicago's is built around the run, so I give the nod to Green Bay here. As for Chicago, people will talk about Grossman but it's really a collaborative effort. Will Olsen be able to stretch the field enough to free up room for Berrian over the top? Can Moose still cut it as a bail out guy for Rexy? Is there enough depth at WR? There is a lot to be positive about here, but lots of question marks as well. Then we come to Minnesota. Ey yi yi! Tavaris Jackson drops back to pass, hits Bobby Wade for three yards, and the Vikings come out to punt. Expect to hear that a lot. I'm actually a Troy Williamson fan. That's about all the positives I can give out here.

Running Game
1)Minnesota
2)Chicago
3)Green Bay
4)Detroit

Analysis
-People might initially question Detroit below Green Bay but lets face it, Martz doesn't run the ball. They were dead last in rushing last year, in part because they were always coming back from behind, but in part because they just don't commit to running the ball. The injury of Kevin Jones is of a big concern, and Tatum Bell, while a good option off the bench, will be hurt by the poor offensive line play in Detroit. All this being said, is anyone overwhelmed by Vernand Morency and Brandon Jackson. I actually like both guys, but the Packers division hopes for next year took a hit when Buffalo selected Marshawn Lynch. For a team that has few playmakers on offense they really can't afford to not have a dynamic back in the backfield and are really hoping that Jackson develops into that guy. I actually had Minnesota and Chicago closer than some might think. The Bears had a more consistent running game last year and while people are obviously going to get excited about Peterson, I would expect he and Taylor to see a LOT of 8-9 man fronts. That being said, Benson has yet to prove that he can be "the man" and 2 is usually better than one, so Minnesota takes it.


Overall Offense
1)Chicago
2)Green Bay
3)Detroit
4)Minnesota

-Whaaaaa?!?!? How can I put Chicago #1 when they aren't the best at the run or the pass? Simple. Balance. Detroit can't (or doesn't) run. Minnesota has no pass offense at all, and Green Bay actually has less playmakers than Chicago. If I was confident in Detroit's ability to keep Kitna upright I'd put them higher. I'm not. Chicago's offense gets run down but it's actually in the top half of the league, and this is not much of an offensive division.

Run Defense
1)Minnesota
2)Chicago
3)Green Bay
4)Detroit

-Minnesota was so good at stopping the run last year it was remarkable. I think the loss of Tomlin will hurt, probably more than people are acknowledging, but come on...I'm also excited to see how Greenway plays next year. They made a semi-bold move in letting Napoleon Harris walk and appointing Greenway the starter on the outside. Chicago is still a top 10 run defense and I think the addition of Archuleta in the box will help, but we're not as good as Minnesota and I'll be the first to admit that. If Briggs is gonzo we could dip a bit, maybe even below Green Bay, but that hasn't happened yet so for now it stands. I like Green Bay's defense in general, and am a huge A.J. Hawk fan. Lots of good defensive players in this division, especially at the linebacker position. Detroit has lots of question marks, and none of them bigger than their ability to stop the run. The linebacker position is a huge question mark and while they've got some defensive lineman that can get after the QB, none of them are particularly known for run-stuffing.

Pass Defense
1)Chicago
2)Green Bay
3)Detroit
4)Minnesota

Chicago is the clear #1 here. Good passrushers, good corners, the only question mark is the safety position but there's lots of depth and competition here. Green Bay has some real questions at the safety position, and while Nick Collins gets a lot of hype on here he had a lot of games last year where he looked absolutely lost. I think they could have done more to add speed to their secondary, but the Aaron Rouse pick was a good one. Detroit is kinda eh...I think Stanley Wilson could emerge as a good cover 2 corner but he needs to step up this year or he'll be replaced the next. Who is the other corner? Is Fernando Bryant still a starter there? If so, why? I like Daniel Bullocks at safety..I like him a lot actually, but Kennoy Kennedy already looks to be a bit of a free agency bust and another case where it's clear Millen really doesn't understand how to find talent that fits scheme. Minnesota should have been better against the pass. I guess it's just age catching up to them. Either way, they didn't get any younger this year, and I think it'll be second verse same as the first this year.

Overall Defense
1)Chicago
2)Minnesota
3)Green Bay
4)Detroit

-Please don't get snipey here Packers fans. It's close between Minnesota and Green Bay. I think both have good young defenses, but Minnesota is just so beastly against the run they get my tip o' the hat.

Special Teams
1)Chicago
2)Detroit
3)Green Bay
4)Minnesota

This is basically Chicago and everyone else, although Detroit actually has solid special teams. Devin Hester made Green Bay and Minny look silly. Minny seems to always have problems on special teams.

Overall Record
1)Chicago 11-5
2)Green Bay 8-8
3)Minnesota 6-10
4)Detroit 5-11

I actually didn't think I'd go this high on Chicago, but the more I look over the schedule the more I think 11 games is very reasonable. I was ready to anoint Green Bay the biggest competitor, and I guess they still are, but this was just a bad off-season for the short term. Ted Thompson's moves may pay off in the end but they needed Randy Moss and Marshawn Lynch and they got neither. They are still a talent strapped team and I just don't see them taking that next step this year. Minnesota and Detroit actually have a good number of things to be positive about, but they also have huge holes and either team could easily lose 12-13 games next year. I just don't see either team not having a losing record, not this year anyway.
Great job here and the green bay predictions are about right so im cool with it. Aside from the 8-8 thing, maybe 15-1 or somethin like that but w/e
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Old 05-11-2007, 07:44 PM    (permalink
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God. Does EVERYONE... and i mean EVERYONE outside of chicago think clark is pure crap now?

he's 30. he caught for 600 yards last year. a handful of TD's. WTF?
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Old 05-11-2007, 09:02 PM    (permalink
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I think its my turn to actually say something useful. I'm using BF51's template and adding a few things.

Passing Game
1)Detroit
2)Green Bay
3)Chicago
4)Minnesota

Analysis

Okay, BF has one thing right. When it comes to the NFCN there's nothing like bad passing games. Which leads me to wonder, which came first? the great running games forcing the lack of passing game or the lack of passing game forcing the great running games. That being said. Detroit really has the best three recievers. CJ, Furrey, RW. There's no comparison. Kitna can throw for maybe 4700 yards this year. I'm not joking. If the line improves even a smudge more. It's possible. Expect everyone to play dime/quarters on detroit. Jennings will have a standout year for GB, but how much longer can Driver play? They didn't make the moves to secure a stud WR/Pass Catching RB, and Bubba Franks isn't who he was in 99. Favre is Favre. It's like saying, will the sun come up today. Given decent targets, he'll still be the reckless great one that Jake Plummer always thought he could be (but isn't). He still has great power and decent command. He just may not have the talent nor the running game to really play on offense. The Bears group of WR's is probably the second best in the division, with a Healthy Bradley, Berrian, Olson, and Muhammad. They have the depth and opportunity to be good but as always, quarterback play is the major limiting factor to this squad. Vikings. Uh. Yeah. Passing game. Tavaris Jackson. Troy Williamson... and they don't even have Marcus Robinson. I don't understand what pieces Childress are trying to put together. This is not three-yards and a cloud of dust football.

Running Game
1) Chicago
2) Minnesota
3)Green Bay
4)Detroit

Analysis
Where I differ from BF is in the fact that, no one at least early in the season, will respect Minnesota on the pass. Dropping the SS down to be touching the mike will probably be common against Minnesota. I would say, Minnesota, get ready to face deep-3's alot. But, with eight guys in the box, especially against GB with a young group of fast linebackers, the Bears just because urlacher has a stunt double somewhere on the field sometimes, and the Lions only because you'll be able to run through them if there wasn't eight guys in the box (although sims may solidifying the LB situation in DET). Sure, you have a great guy in Taylor and Peterson, but the O-Line is suspect on. The right side. Kampmann isn't bad against the run and Tommie Harris and Ogunleye will possibly crush any hope of consistantly sustaining a running game that Minnesota played last year. Vikings fans should remember. Run on first, Run on Second, Throw on third, PUNT! It's basically what it boiled down to. GB has a weak sauce RB. It's not the threat they need in the backfield. They could have used Tatum Bell more than Detroit with their ZBS. But in the past. Now that they're getting the kinks out, I don't see how it's AS close as BF may put it because, in reality Detroit will have the lowest running attempts in the league. No doubt. Balanced offense? Three Big WR's? Uh. I'll take the WR's in Martzworld. Chicago though has the best run blocking line as a whole even though they're around 800 years old. This year they might come out unscathed, but as long as Ruben Brown and Miller don't run out of gas mid-season... I'd say Benson will be the back to beat, with a good o-line, i feel like i can assert that without getting too homerish.

Overall Offense
1)Chicago
2)Green Bay
3)Detroit
4)Minnesota

Chicago wins because of the balance. It's that easy. I hate to say it, but if grossman plays on the same caliber he did all of last year. There really isn't that much stopping me from saying that. Minnesota doesn't pass, GB is balanced, but doesn't have a playmaker yet on offense other than Favre (and that only accounts for so much...), and the Lions won't run, or can't run, and their line may cause their downfall. I'm not saying Chicago's offense is even that good, but comparitively, no one should argue.

Run Defense
1)Minnesota
2)Chicago
3)Green Bay
4)Detroit

FatPat and KWill are an amazing tandem on the interior line. My god. 1.4 yds per run? But without Napoleon Harris and a recovering Greenway, I'm sure that number will go up. They get the top spot though without much consideration to the contrary. Chicago, well. Tank Johnson is out of Jail. Tommie Harris is recovering. Dusty Dvorchek is a big questionmark. Lance Briggs is maybe gone. The only thing that remains constant is Urlacher in the defense. But they're still better than Detroit and GB base on their depth. Alex brown and Ogunleye play the run very well and linemen have trouble trapping urlacher on outside runs. It's really just on how well the interior can plug up the middle that will make Chicago's defense so strong. I say, Harris is back. Tank's been working out in the house. It's just a big If they play as well as they did last year from their time off. GB has a good defense, and A.J. Hawk will continue to be a shining star in their defense (although, someone tell me, WTF with his hair?), Kampman is good, Pickett is good, but nothing special, really a middle of the road front seven. Detroit. Uh. Really their only hope is that Kitna doesn't shoot the field and they get kept on the sidelines for six-seven minutes at a time. Ernie Sims is good linebacker among just barely starters (boss bailey shows some talent occasionally). Rogers and Redding provide a great push up the middle, but on the outside, not so much to stop backs from turning the corner.

Pass Defense
1)Chicago
2)Green Bay
3)Minnesota
4)Detroit

Chicago has the edge. Mark Anderson lead the NFLN in Sacks and they just keep adding more edge threats. Tillman and Vasher are both in the top tier of corners. Tillman is still improving beyond my original expectations. In the deep field, Mike Brown is apparently recovering quicker than expected, Adam Archuleta might be in a position to have a season like he did in STL. But will it work (My sources say: doubtful, thank you magic 8 ball). Bazuin was probably not the best choice to pick up this year, but they might have one of the more dangerous pass rushes in all of football this year. GB, Nick Collins is a good safety who basically got the shaft end of the ever slowing woodson and harris. Their pass-rushing is so so, but the linebackers can hold their own in coverage for the most part. Detroit. Meh. They don't have the pressure to build a good coverage scheme, they have no clear starting corner. Period. No one who will even make your mind think twice about hey, i shouldn't throw it when _____ is covering ______. Kennoy Kennedy isn't nearly as bad as BF may put it, Last Season he was much, much better than he was this season, I wouldn't be so quick to call him a bust. Minnesota is better than Detroit though. Without shame I'll say that, but it's If Udeze finds a way to pressure quarterbacks and Winfield plays at a decent level, Sharper and Smith are pretty good back there and should play better than they did last year.

Overall Defense
1)Chicago
2)Minnesota
3)Green Bay
4)Detroit

Green Bay has more questions, less weaknesses than the Vikings. A better LB core by far, but everything else is, decent whereas the Vikings have more proven skills and all around defense than GB at this moment. The top and bottom of the order should be no suprise.

Special Teams
1)Chicago
2)Detroit
3)Minnesota
4)Green Bay


I like ryan longwell. Much to the chagrin of green bay. Chicago has possibly the best special teams in the league. Sure they don't have a kicker who boots it 55 yards, but they have consistancy. And consistant field position is an advantage. And then you have devin hester. Detroit has good special teams coverage, they block kicks, cause turnovers, and are hard hitters, everything you look for.

Coaching
1)Detroit
2)Chicago
3)Green Bay
4)Minnesota

I added this one. Who's coaches are going to add the most to the team? Detroit. I'm a big fan of Martz and Marinelli as a combo. Martz is one of the most brilliant and adaptive minds of the past 10 years as far as offense goes. Marinelli is a good defensive coach and a great (i mean great) motivator. Chicago with the loss of Rivera, may sport a different defense and different motivation. But overall, Lovie is a relatively consistant coach, where he may not be the creative genius of the group. He's solid in fundamentals. Mike McCarthey. Well. He's a mismatch for the system in Favre. But, hopefully he can salvage Aaron Rodgers. Defensively, eh. Okay sure. It's less than stellar. Minnesota, Even though brad childress went to my set of high school, he showed predictability, inertia, and a general lack of respect from his players, he may be a nice guy. He's not getting the job done, and with the departure of tomlin. I'm not sure he's going to live in Minnesota for much longer. He's trying to run like mike shananhan, play WCO like philly, and it's not working for him yet. Shame.

Overall Record
1)Chicago 10-6
2)Green Bay 8-8
3)Detroit 5-11
4)Minnesoda 3-13

I'm off to looptopia. Yay chicago.
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Old 05-11-2007, 09:05 PM    (permalink
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Two words: Rex Grossman. I'll take the Packers, thank you very much.
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Old 05-11-2007, 09:29 PM    (permalink
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Two words: Rex Grossman. I'll take the Packers, thank you very much.
Finally a non homer. Sorry Bears fans.
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Old 05-11-2007, 10:10 PM    (permalink
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I think our season basically rests on the shoulders of Tarvaris Jackson. If he performs well, I don't see why we can't win 9 or 10 games. However, if he plays well below average, I can't see us winning more than 6.
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Old 05-11-2007, 10:31 PM    (permalink
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Two words: Rex Grossman. I'll take the Packers, thank you very much.
He's no worse than Brett Favre is at this point.
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Old 05-11-2007, 10:49 PM    (permalink
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He's no worse than Brett Favre is at this point.
If actually think Rex Grossman is a better current quarterback than Brett Favre, then you're a nutcase. Brett Favre actually preforms well in the fourth quarter.
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Old 05-11-2007, 10:55 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by awfullyquiet View Post

Run Defense
1)Minnesota
2)Chicago
3)Green Bay
4)Detroit

FatPat and KWill are an amazing tandem on the interior line. My god. 1.4 yds per run? But without Napoleon Harris and a recovering Greenway, I'm sure that number will go up. They get the top spot though without much consideration to the contrary. Chicago, well. Tank Johnson is out of Jail. Tommie Harris is recovering. Dusty Dvorchek is a big questionmark. Lance Briggs is maybe gone. The only thing that remains constant is Urlacher in the defense. But they're still better than Detroit and GB base on their depth. Alex brown and Ogunleye play the run very well and linemen have trouble trapping urlacher on outside runs. It's really just on how well the interior can plug up the middle that will make Chicago's defense so strong. I say, Harris is back. Tank's been working out in the house. It's just a big If they play as well as they did last year from their time off. GB has a good defense, and A.J. Hawk will continue to be a shining star in their defense (although, someone tell me, WTF with his hair?), Kampman is good, Pickett is good, but nothing special, really a middle of the road front seven. Detroit. Uh. Really their only hope is that Kitna doesn't shoot the field and they get kept on the sidelines for six-seven minutes at a time. Ernie Sims is good linebacker among just barely starters (boss bailey shows some talent occasionally). Rogers and Redding provide a great push up the middle, but on the outside, not so much to stop backs from turning the corner.

Pass Defense
1)Chicago
2)Green Bay
3)Minnesota
4)Detroit

Chicago has the edge. Mark Anderson lead the NFLN in Sacks and they just keep adding more edge threats. Tillman and Vasher are both in the top tier of corners. Tillman is still improving beyond my original expectations. In the deep field, Mike Brown is apparently recovering quicker than expected, Adam Archuleta might be in a position to have a season like he did in STL. But will it work (My sources say: doubtful, thank you magic 8 ball). Bazuin was probably not the best choice to pick up this year, but they might have one of the more dangerous pass rushes in all of football this year. GB, Nick Collins is a good safety who basically got the shaft end of the ever slowing woodson and harris. Their pass-rushing is so so, but the linebackers can hold their own in coverage for the most part. Detroit. Meh. They don't have the pressure to build a good coverage scheme, they have no clear starting corner. Period. No one who will even make your mind think twice about hey, i shouldn't throw it when _____ is covering ______. Kennoy Kennedy isn't nearly as bad as BF may put it, Last Season he was much, much better than he was this season, I wouldn't be so quick to call him a bust. Minnesota is better than Detroit though. Without shame I'll say that, but it's If Udeze finds a way to pressure quarterbacks and Winfield plays at a decent level, Sharper and Smith are pretty good back there and should play better than they did last year.

Overall Defense
1)Chicago
2)Minnesota
3)Green Bay
4)Detroit

.
I disagree about what you said about Green Bay's D

Mostly the D-line comment.
Kampman led the NFC in sacks
KGB/Cullen Jenkins proved to make a good duo at DE.
Pickett, Williams, and Cole made a great rotation at DT and Harrell should only improve it.
Also Charles Woodson played great next year so i think he still has one more good year. And Harris is a great CB. He doenst have the speed but has the technique
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Old 05-11-2007, 11:06 PM    (permalink
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Mark Anderson lead the NFLN in Sacks and they just keep adding more edge threats. Tillman and Vasher are both in the top tier of corners. Tillman is still improving beyond my original expectations. GB, Nick Collins is a good safety who basically got the shaft end of the ever slowing woodson and harris. Their pass-rushing is so so, but the linebackers can hold their own in coverage for the most part.
I like the majority of your post. But a couple large corrections need to be made here.

Aaron Kampman led the NFC North in sacks by 3.5. He had 15.5. I agree that the Bears have the best pass defense because that's their focus. Green Bay had 46 sacks last year, the most of any full time 4-3 team so let's not discredit that. The next closest 4-3 defenses were Seattle & Carolina with 41. Bears had 40 but I think they Bears pass rush has more impact on the game, they forced so many turnovers off of their pass rush.

Tillman is very good but Vasher is overrated. People are still living off of his interceptions two years ago. He's also strictly a Cover 2 corner. Tillman could definitely play well in another scheme. Vasher has good ball skills but struggles mightily against big receivers. Boldin and Roy Williams come to my mind. Both of their contracts are coming up after the season, if the front office could only agree on one contract they'd choose Tillman, they've got another Vasher like player in the nickle package, it's Ricky Manning JR, they're almost the same.

Nick Collins' play had very little to do with Woodson and Harris. It was either the other safety, or linebackers who made the initial mistake. CB's didn't cost him much at all. Al Harris was the same athlete last year as he was the previous year, Woodson isn't as athletic as he used to be, but was the Packers best play maker and covers the deep ball extremely well. The miscommunications in the Packers defense were talked about a lot last year and it reflected on Nick Collins as much as anybody. I mean he is a safety, the last line of defense, and so is Marquand Manuel, the other guy who got a lot of blame. I'd like to point out there were 6 new starters on the defense last year, and how well the defense played towards the end of the year.

You also can't say the Packers pass rushing is so-so. I know sacks become overrated at times but when you have 46 of them, 4th highest in the league, it's far from so-so. Most people judge a pass rush on sacks/hurries. If one chooses to use that criteria the Packers pass rush was the best.

At the very least the Packers defense should be in the top 15 in both points and yards in my opinion. Chances are all the starters will be the same. 2nd year under the same defensive coordinator, Bob Sanders, every returning starter, and just young players getting better. There is continuity on the defense for the first time since the Packers were last in the playoffs. Hawk is 23, Barnett is 25, Brady Poppinga is 27 but going into his 2nd full season, Nick Collins is 23, Aaron Kampman is 27, Ryan Pickett is 27, Cullen Jenkins is 26, and Corey Williams is 26.

All those players are in their prime or about to enter it. Most of them are considered good players by most people already. Not to mention Justin Harrell the 1st round pick this year, and Aaron Rouse. I haven't added Harris/Woodson to the equation yet. People seem to like to dis these guys cause they're getting older or something but they're a top 5 CB tandem.

I didn't intend to go on this much but it is the NFC North thread, so it turned into a bigger post instead of a couple corrections.
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Old 05-11-2007, 11:43 PM    (permalink
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Sack leaders: (incase you were wondering)
http://www.nfl.com/stats/leaders/NFL/SCKS/2006/regular
Looking over that i realized Anderson only has 30 or so tackles. Is he strictly a pass rusher

I cant believe Barnett is only 25. I thought he was 27 for some reason
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Old 05-12-2007, 12:05 AM    (permalink
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Two words: Rex Grossman. I'll take the Packers, thank you very much.
Oh you're back, great.

The thing that separates Chicago from any other team in this division is their Special Teams. When you've got arguably one of the best kickers in the NFL, the best return man in the NFL, and one of the best punters in the NFL on your side, it's going to win you games and I don't think anyone is mentioning that right now. Hester is a great field position tool to have, Robbie is extremely consistent, and Maynard is awesome pinning teams inside the 20. That and we have one of the best kick and punt coverage games in the NFC. We don't make too many mistakes on punts and kickoffs.

Again keep bashing Rex, but statistically he was the best QB in the North last year (TD's vs INT's). And if Rex can't get it done, Brian Griese is a very reliable backup to have.
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Despite looking better against an underachieving Eagles team, I still think the Bears are one of the worst teams in the NFL. I smell a blowout victory by the Lions this week and a division sweep.
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Old 05-12-2007, 12:08 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bryanGENE View Post
Finally a non homer. Sorry Bears fans.
Non-homer, give me a break dude. If you judge the teams in the North by looking at them, there is no doubt that Chicago is the class of this division. Even a majority of the Packer fans on here will admit that.

Is it an indication that we're a shoe in for the title? No it's not, but to sit here and call us homers for saying the Bears are going to win the division is ridiculous.
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Despite looking better against an underachieving Eagles team, I still think the Bears are one of the worst teams in the NFL. I smell a blowout victory by the Lions this week and a division sweep.
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Old 05-12-2007, 12:09 AM    (permalink
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He's no worse than Brett Favre is at this point.
Yeah he is. You're basing Grossman off what he could be, not what he is.
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Old 05-12-2007, 12:10 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by sweetness34 View Post
Non-homer, give me a break dude. If you judge the teams in the North by looking at them, there is no doubt that Chicago is the class of this division. Even a majority of the Packer fans on here will admit that.

Is it an indication that we're a shoe in for the title? No it's not, but to sit here and call us homers for saying the Bears are going to win the division is ridiculous.
We'd like to keep an open mind in this thread, thanks. Right now, it's anybodies game.
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Old 05-12-2007, 12:12 AM    (permalink
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The Bears won't be 13-3 or better this year. They have a murderous schedule. It's not as much about who they play, cause that's tough enough, but it's when they play. If I make predictions at all I'm gonna wait, it's still far too early, you can get a better sense of how the team will be in preseason/training camp. Right now it's all just a sheet of paper vs. a sheet of paper.
You realize you have basically the same schedule as we do don't you? If our schedule is murderous, so is yours. You play SD, KC, Denver, Oakland, NYG, Dallas, Philly, Washington, Detroit (2), Minnesota (2), Chicago (2), and two other games that will be separate from ours. I believe we have New Orleans and Seattle, which are two of the top teams in the NFC on paper.

You guys went 8-8 on a pretty soft schedule last year, so you're going to have just as hard a time with the schedules for next year as we will.
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Despite looking better against an underachieving Eagles team, I still think the Bears are one of the worst teams in the NFL. I smell a blowout victory by the Lions this week and a division sweep.
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Old 05-12-2007, 12:13 AM    (permalink
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We'd like to keep an open mind in this thread, thanks. Right now, it's anybodies game.
Sure it is, but to call someone a homer for saying Chicago is going to win the division is completely ludicrous, considering we are the favorites right now on paper.
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Despite looking better against an underachieving Eagles team, I still think the Bears are one of the worst teams in the NFL. I smell a blowout victory by the Lions this week and a division sweep.
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Old 05-12-2007, 12:15 AM    (permalink
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Sure it is, but to call someone a homer for saying Chicago is going to win the division is completely ludicrous, considering we are the favorites right now on paper.
Sometimes in "arguements" like these, all you need to do is look at the poster, and stop arguing. This is one of those cases.
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