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Old 01-08-2013, 09:41 PM    (permalink
Gribble
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Originally Posted by D-Unit View Post
This is gonna be a long offseason.

We're crediting/blaming the stats on the coaches instead of the personnel on the field.
I'm sure there are going to be changes in personnel. This was kinda out of left field for me though. I thought Rob had another year with the walking wounded unit we had at the end...
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Old 01-08-2013, 09:46 PM    (permalink
Azhais
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Think this means 4-3?
Waiting for news that it's Castillo and the Wide 9.

I doubt Ray Horton is happening, the Falcons would have to release him from his contract. The only "free out" is coordinator -> head coach, anything else requires team permission.
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Old 01-08-2013, 09:46 PM    (permalink
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I'm reading that Garrett fired Rob over the phone while he was on vacation.

Classy guy.
well do you expect garrett to get on a plane to the bahamas and tell him he's fired while he's tanning his big belly on the beach?
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Old 01-08-2013, 09:48 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Go Cowboys View Post
If thats your argument then what is your argument in Jason Garrett remaining as the OC/HC?
I never once said I didn't want the Boys to go in a different direction as far as the OC. Don't build a strawman and burn it based on something I didn't say.

Offense definitely had some problems, but that doesn't completely absolve the defense. Infact it's a tale of two seasons this year, as the Offense picked up the D's slack late.

But then we're ignoring that the Defense struggled last year as well, and the Offense did not.


I just posted a page back or so that there's rumors an OC is going to be named this week too....I'm all for changes...2 8-8 seasons isn't good enough.
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Old 01-08-2013, 09:49 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Azhais View Post
Waiting for news that it's Castillo and the Wide 9.

I doubt Ray Horton is happening, the Falcons would have to release him from his contract. The only "free out" is coordinator -> head coach, anything else requires team permission.
actually horton's is with the cardinals and they already fired the head coach unless they promote him hc whoever else is the coach he probably wants to bring his own guy
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Old 01-08-2013, 09:51 PM    (permalink
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Much like when you say people make excuses for Romo. Rob's had 2 years here and the defense got WORST not better...You can blame injuries...but last year we were saying "Rob can't blitz because the CB's can't cover"...now "Rob can't blitz because of street scrubs".

Redskins showed us(along with a # of other teams) that you don't need a great Secondary to blitz the hell out of people. Jets consistently dial up pressure at key moments despite not being even close to the Cowboys talent wise(besides Revis...who was IR).

Rob's average man...just average. I have no problem with the change if JG is going after the guy he initially had eyes on before hiring RR.
Blitzing doesn't mean more success! Washington blitzed the hell out of us and it worked but that's more a testament to the lack of adjustments made by Garrett.

The first time we played RG3, he ate our blitz alive. So the second time around, Rob adjusted. His bend but don't break had been working for weeks and weeks...and we were right there for the playoffs. Since we didn't have safeties who could cover deep, he favored giving up the underneath because if teams got in the red zone it would make up for our inability to cover deep and play more to our strengths... and I think we did a good job forcing teams to go for FGs... and prevented teams from making a lot of big plays against us this year.

Rob loves to blitz. He's proven that in the past. He accommodated this year and I think it showed depth to his coaching ability.
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Old 01-08-2013, 09:54 PM    (permalink
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well do you expect garrett to get on a plane to the bahamas and tell him he's fired while he's tanning his big belly on the beach?
Got a point there. haha. What an image.

F Garrett though.
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Old 01-08-2013, 10:14 PM    (permalink
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I have no issues with the firing. I'm with a change. Ryan's defense didn't turn the ball over. With or without his starters. In this league. You gotta force turnovers.
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Old 01-08-2013, 10:17 PM    (permalink
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actually horton's is with the cardinals and they already fired the head coach unless they promote him hc whoever else is the coach he probably wants to bring his own guy
Idk man, they have a young D that fits perfectly with his scheme and he had them balling this year. It makes so much more sense for him to be retained. The defense already being intact would be a major selling point for most offensive minded HC candidates.
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Old 01-08-2013, 11:08 PM    (permalink
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Idk man, they have a young D that fits perfectly with his scheme and he had them balling this year. It makes so much more sense for him to be retained. The defense already being intact would be a major selling point for most offensive minded HC candidates.
we'll see, ur right that they do have some really good young players and they played well early in the season, but they don't really have the edge rusher from the olbs to really make the defense work, their de's get most of the pressure which is really strange in a 3-4. but i doubt we go that way either. garrett said there was gonna be a philisophical change in the defense so my guess is a 4-3

name to watch our for....... dave wannstedt
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Old 01-08-2013, 11:44 PM    (permalink
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Moving to the 4-3 seems so out of left field and it'd take a few offseasons for us to put it all together, but at least itd be fun here tracking new players lol. I haven't paid much attention to 4-3 prospects in years.
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Old 01-09-2013, 12:23 AM    (permalink
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Moving to the 4-3 seems so out of left field and it'd take a few offseasons for us to put it all together, but at least itd be fun here tracking new players lol. I haven't paid much attention to 4-3 prospects in years.
well what parts of the 4-3 don't we have, imo our personnel fits 4-3 better. if you keep ratliff he's better as a 3tech than a 3-4 nt and lissemore would be a better 1-tech dt than 3-4nt tackle. spencer and ware can put their hand on the ground and be ends and not not have to worry about all the reading and dropping back in coverage that you have to do as 3-4olb. lee is a perfect 4-3 mlb and carter is perfect as the wlb. crawford natural position is lde in a 4-3 they're beefing him up to be 3-4 end. hatcher could play the 3 tech or the base end and spears would be fine at the shaded nose in a 4-3 like lissemore. the only position you don't have is a slb but you can address that thru the draft or free agency or the easiest in house solution is connor or albright play that position for 2013 and you find a player to replace him in 2014. its not difficult switch at all.... your thoughts?
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Old 01-09-2013, 01:07 AM    (permalink
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I agree. We played a ton of 4-3 this year anyway.
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:11 AM    (permalink
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I agree. We played a ton of 4-3 this year anyway.
did we? maybe early in the season but last half of the season i remember playing that dumb 2-4 alignment that kept getting run over
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:45 AM    (permalink
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The thing about a 4-3 is that anyone could fit in it somewhere. You don't have to scout for specific players because there's somewhere for them in a 4-3 unless it's a really specific type of 4-3 that's a bit of a hybrid. All the D linemen in a 3-4 could be DTs in a 4-3, and some ends. There's room for a NT in a 4-3, and you could just slide the 3-4 ends inside like Hatcher. Plus it wouldn't waste Lissemore taking on so many double teams because he's got a lot of potential as a guy that could get some penetration. He's not bad at taking double teams, but he's better at being Lissemore than the poor man's Ratliff because they're different players.

Like CBM said about Crawford, I think he'd be good playing end opposite Ware because the strong side end is going to need to be a bit of a run stuffer. He'd had to rush the passer as well, and I think he could do that well because he showed some good speed this year.

Now if Spencer is resigned I'd favor the 3-4 still. Sure he could play end just like Ware in a 4-3, but him and Ware are so damn great at playing the run and flats as linebackers that I think they'd be better off with them at those spots because they would move better standing up instead of in a 3 point stance. Either way it goes I don't mind as long as they replace Rob with someone that's going to throw a lot of things at the opposing offenses. The Cowboys have a lot of talent in their front 7 as it is, but they need a DC that's going to know how to maximize all that athleticism.
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Old 01-09-2013, 03:07 AM    (permalink
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did we? maybe early in the season but last half of the season i remember playing that dumb 2-4 alignment that kept getting run over
You sound bitter. Early in the season when guys were mostly healthy we were one of the best defenses in the league. We all watched the games. We all know that Rob did a good job despite injuries. We all know that the offense, specifically the OL was the main culprit of our woes. It seems like this post firing bashing is coming out of nowhere. Where was this passion during the season? Where was it last week? Where was it yesterday?

Everyone's last image in their minds was how Washington ran all over us. Well, they had the #1 rushing offense in the league, k. We were busted up with all kinds of injuries and we STILL had held them to just 21 points at their house and a chance to tie or win with 3 min left in the game.

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Old 01-09-2013, 07:18 AM    (permalink
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I loved Rob Ryan's personality and I'm not happy with the firing. Big caveat though. If we sign Horton I'm completely over Ryan and it was the right move for the Cowboys.

Rob earned another year with his performance with the Walking Dead however his schemes have never been great turnover generation and it's hard to blame the different personnel groups he's had for that issue. If we are looking for a coach to generate more "splash plays", sacks/turnovers/TFL, then I can understand the move.
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Old 01-09-2013, 08:28 AM    (permalink
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just curious doesn't Horton have to be released to be able to be hired by the Cowboys? He is still an assistant coach of the Cardinals and they would have to release him yes? Where Dallas isn't hiring a Head coach i think Horton is a moot point ?

I could be wrong and if so how would it happen?
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Old 01-09-2013, 08:31 AM    (permalink
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You sound bitter. Early in the season when guys were mostly healthy we were one of the best defenses in the league. We all watched the games. We all know that Rob did a good job despite injuries. We all know that the offense, specifically the OL was the main culprit of our woes. It seems like this post firing bashing is coming out of nowhere. Where was this passion during the season? Where was it last week? Where was it yesterday?

Everyone's last image in their minds was how Washington ran all over us. Well, they had the #1 rushing offense in the league, k. We were busted up with all kinds of injuries and we STILL had held them to just 21 points at their house and a chance to tie or win with 3 min left in the game.
You seriously do sound bitter.

Silver lining in your case...this is pretty much evidence that this will be JG's make or break year, which means if Rob was here and they didn't make the playoffs he'd be canned next year anyways.

I just don't understand all the hand wringing and moaning. He's an average at best DC...always has been. When he was hired I loved it because I expected him to throw the kitchen sink, and throw some crazy looks at offenses. In 2 years he's done none of that...We can blame the DB's last year, and the injuries this year...whatever...fact of the matter is that there's better defenses than the Boys with half the talent(even with all the injuries). Worst defense in cowboys history this past season, and was the worst secondary in Cowboys history last season(While T.New looked great in Cinci this year). Constant issues getting players on and off the field, defense never getting a turnover.


Rob's not worth arguing over, IMO.

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Old 01-09-2013, 08:33 AM    (permalink
Trogdor
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Originally Posted by igglefanz View Post
just curious doesn't Horton have to be released to be able to be hired by the Cowboys? He is still an assistant coach of the Cardinals and they would have to release him yes? Where Dallas isn't hiring a Head coach i think Horton is a moot point ?

I could be wrong and if so how would it happen?
Correct. Word out of 'Zona is that he isn't going to be hired as HC and typically coaches don't hold onto old staff so they can bring in their own guys.
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Old 01-09-2013, 09:26 AM    (permalink
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This is typical Jerry Jones. But sure, let's keep Garrett around and continue to call plays. I'm guessing Jerry wasn't paying attention to much this season smh..
Didn't he say he wanted to make things uncomfortable around there? Isn't that two coaches fired? God I wish fewell was fired. This is a shocking move. I figured you'd get turner and that would make me livid. Aggressive DC and my favorite pro system installed there.

Jones made a bad move here. The other DCs or even in general the coaching pool isn't that too good.
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Old 01-09-2013, 09:38 AM    (permalink
leroyisgod
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A move to the 4-3 would indeed impact our draft strategy a good bit. Especially since we don't have anyone to play SLB currently.
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Old 01-09-2013, 10:16 AM    (permalink
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A move to the 4-3 would indeed impact our draft strategy a good bit. Especially since we don't have anyone to play SLB currently.
Depends what 4-3 scheme we choose if we hire Lovie Smith who is from the Kiffin Tampa two coaching tree Carter could play the strong side no problem. He is strong and showed that he could really get down into the trenches to do dirty work. Weak side linebackers are easier to find in this class, Khaseem Green is a prototypical Tampa two and certainly fits the RKG Garrett type of player. Church might be able to play that role as well if we target a Safety in the draft.
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Old 01-09-2013, 10:33 AM    (permalink
Trogdor
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Depends what 4-3 scheme we choose if we hire Lovie Smith who is from the Kiffin Tampa two coaching tree Carter could play the strong side no problem. He is strong and showed that he could really get down into the trenches to do dirty work. Weak side linebackers are easier to find in this class, Khaseem Green is a prototypical Tampa two and certainly fits the RKG Garrett type of player. Church might be able to play that role as well if we target a Safety in the draft.
Please God not the Tampa Two. Our corners specialize in press and we are committed to them long term. If we switch to the 4-3 we need to have them in press.

Casting Carr and Claiborne into off-man schemes is a horrible fit to their skillsets. If we switch we definitely have to stick with a 1-gap 4-3 scheme but everyone plays that anyway except Jax.
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:02 AM    (permalink
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Running the Tampa two doesn't limit press coverage it just puts more emphasis on zone scheme rather then man to man. It's all about keeping eyes on the ball which usually leads to a major increase in turnovers, which was the knock on our defense.
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