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Old 09-27-2010, 06:05 AM    (permalink
LonghornsLegend
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Originally Posted by HEISMANHERSCHEL View Post
Roy Williams-he has been really good, so far this season.

This season? Woah. He had a good game, but he's still been dropping passes, fumbling, and been his sorry self before this game. Let's pump the brakes just a bit HH, he stepped it up, but I wouldn't even come close to saying he's been really good this season. He needs to string together 4 consecutive good games without a huge mistake or an easy drop.


Also, Jason Witten is gonna be a HOFer and he's not even 30 years old, there is nothing to worry about there. It's not like he's the 1st and only option like Gates is in SD, or like Gonzalez was his entire career in KC, look at who we have to give the ball too here. Talking about trading him is just stupid and not worth discussing what so ever, and I wouldn't even be halfway concerned about him either.
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
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Old 09-27-2010, 06:09 AM    (permalink
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Didn't Shanle only move because there was an opportunity to start in New Orleans?

He's been the only guy I have really been dissapointed in losing from the BP era. The rest have been backups with no future starting for the team or people who could have gotten younger. And the only reason we lost Shanle is because BP brought in Akin Ayodele.

Anyway. Nice to get a good quality win this week as opposed to the last two weeks where the world was caving in. I don't think the East is anyone's by a long stretch and still feel that the Eagles have the weakest roster of the lot.
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Old 09-27-2010, 08:54 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
This season? Woah. He had a good game, but he's still been dropping passes, fumbling, and been his sorry self before this game. Let's pump the brakes just a bit HH, he stepped it up, but I wouldn't even come close to saying he's been really good this season. He needs to string together 4 consecutive good games without a huge mistake or an easy drop.
Roy's been a complete failure because of what Jerry gave up for him. Especially in comparison to what the Ravens gave up for Boldin and his immediate impact....

BUT.........

Roy's arguably been downright....GREAT this season. He's an Alex Barron hold from being the savior of the first game. He's not dropping balls, and making tough catches every week. If I remember correctly, he went up for a high ball and converted a huge 3rd down against Washington where he got smacked, then again catching a slant against the Bears and being crushed by the safety. I think Miles is the receiver with the most drops on the year as well. Fact is, Roy's making the most of his opportunities so far.
The fumble last week was his fault(even though forward progress should've been called), but besides that he's playing pretty damn good.

Dez is going to be a special special player also.

Obviously, I think we're cutting Roy this offseason, and I look forward to seeing Austin/Dez as the starters.

BTW, anyone seen Ogletree? He's been MIA....I think he needs to return to KR, AOA hasn't impressed me whatsoever.

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Old 09-27-2010, 09:47 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by herniateddisc View Post
Witten has lost a step and he was never fast to begin with.

I have proposed, and now a proponent of, trading him while his value his still very high.
Why don't you become a dolphins fan then? problem solved. You just ruin quality discussion here.
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Old 09-27-2010, 09:49 AM    (permalink
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Great win.

Here's a couple of items that have me very optimistic for the future.

Obviously, Dez is a natural. He's going to be special. Couple that with we just signed Miles and we are in very good shape at WR for years to come.

Free - As someone mentioned, he has quietly become a bad ass. Not many talking heads are noticing yet, but he's been fantastic.

I really think if we can address the interior OL in the next draft, we will have some really good young pieces.
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Old 09-27-2010, 09:52 AM    (permalink
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Great win.

Here's a couple of items that have me very optimistic for the future.

Obviously, Dez is a natural. He's going to be special. Couple that with we just signed Miles and we are in very good shape at WR for years to come.

Free - As someone mentioned, he has quietly become a bad ass. Not many talking heads are noticing yet, but he's been fantastic.

I really think if we can address the interior OL in the next draft, we will have some really good young pieces.
My draft philosophy this year would be BPA between S, CB, Interior OL, or DE. Although Newman's play doesn't look like we need to replace him anytime soon.

Ball is garb, I take back my prediction on him, and sensabaugh is J.A.G.

Or unless some rediculous talent falls outside of QB, you take em.
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Old 09-27-2010, 10:15 AM    (permalink
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Speed is not what's important to me in a TE.

As you have said... he was never fast to begin with. Yet, he has been a successful and integral part of the offense. He is NOT one of the problems holding this team back. The cohesiveness he shares with Romo is invaluable. You don't just replace that over night.

For a guy who complains about losing Shanle, Proctor and McQuistan... you sure seem to be contradicting own beliefs.
How is that? I want to trade him for value not scrap heap 6th rounders.

You know what I am writing, don't mis-represent it to score strawman points.
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Old 09-27-2010, 10:24 AM    (permalink
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According to this, Barron is good because he started for the Cowboys? It's the same situation: McQuistan started because of injury, Barron started because of injury. That doesn't classify them as good players. Barron IS terrible and despite of that he was starting the season opener.

And BTW, Carpenter did not start.
Main point is many posters here praise mediocre part time players who "display" a flash here or there while "dismissing" others as being trash. The fact is there are lots of average players that you keep not because they "might be All Pros" but b/c they do their job, limit mistakes and contribute to the team.

The players I had mentioned fit, in many ways, that profile and yet they were run out of Dallas to make room for some very average guys ....... you telling me McQuistan is any worse than Barron? NFW. That is my point. Only reason these things happen is old story of hating on Parcells "guys" while loving on crappy Jerrah "guys."

How many big third down runs did we give up last year with crappy Carp on the field???? Yesterday alone? At least he could chase them down and give time to for the D to get there. Chicago game? A more athletic cover guy might have helped on those slants et al. Where is the great Sean Lee who was going to replace Carp with ease?

What has Bennett done in three years? Why did we not take the Bengals first rounder? Based on what? Expected performance of a back-up 20 year old with maturity issues? Bash Parcells for picking Carp but give Jerrah a pass for not taking the Bengals first rounder? Try getting even a 7th round pick for MB now.

Analyse, then make conclusions. Stop being so quick to throw away players simply b/c they are not All-Pros or look good running in shorts ...............

Next love affair I see developing is Dez ... loved the pick but people are talking about him in language I find spurious.... a talent but you'd think this is Jerry Rice's brains and dedication in Randy Moss's body. Slow down kids.

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Old 09-27-2010, 10:30 AM    (permalink
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.......... Free - As someone mentioned, he has quietly become a bad ass. Not many talking heads are noticing yet, but he's been fantastic.........
I have been harsh on Houck but he needs credit for Free. A revelation at LT.

Something to be said for taking OL based on natural footwork (foot speed) and a wide base while teaching strength and technique.

Kudos to the team (and Jerrah) on this guy. Nice to see them send Flo to the scrap heap. One of the first times on memory I have seen Jerrah go with uncertainty over certainty in the young v old dilemma.
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Old 09-27-2010, 10:33 AM    (permalink
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Free looks good.

I think the oline will be fine. It's really all about Jason Garrett right now.
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Old 09-27-2010, 10:33 AM    (permalink
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My draft philosophy this year would be BPA between S, CB, Interior OL, or DE. Although Newman's play doesn't look like we need to replace him anytime soon.

Ball is garb, I take back my prediction on him, and sensabaugh is J.A.G.

Or unless some rediculous talent falls outside of QB, you take em.
Earl Thomas is looking sweet on ESPN with the turnovers. Too bad he went fast.
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Old 09-27-2010, 10:57 AM    (permalink
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What has Bennett done in three years? Why did we not take the Bengals first rounder? Based on what? Expected performance of a back-up 20 year old with maturity issues? Bash Parcells for picking Carp but give Jerrah a pass for not taking the Bengals first rounder? Try getting even a 7th round pick for MB now.
I've been hearing that the 1st rounder for Bennett is an urban legend. Folks with the Cowboys are saying that never happened.
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Old 09-27-2010, 10:58 AM    (permalink
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I'm sticking with my hope that would could land Moore or the kid from Clemson in the first and Wisniewski in the 2nd.
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Old 09-27-2010, 12:07 PM    (permalink
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Rams tried to make him a 4-3 DE. WTF? Do you follow this game at all?

Polite not much a blocker? Again, do you realllly watch the game?

Again, player movement for the sake of player movement makes no sense when you are throwing away draft picks to then cover up those moves.
I dont know where you get that from. Carpenter was starting at OLB, before failing and being replaced by Larry Grant. He was playing OLB in his final game with the Rams. He played a few snaps at DE, which is pretty typical. Do you really watch the games? jesus.

And yes...Polite, wasnt an amazing blocker and couldnt stay healthy. Oliver Hoyte, a converted LB, surpassed him on the depth chart. And then he jumped around a bit before landing with the Dolphins.

And you're talking about "adequate" players...the aim is to get better and they were all upgradeable positions. Throwing away draft picks? They were attempting to upgrade, JAG. Get over it. Hindsight is 20/20. Bennett was a much better fit for the 2 TE scheming they had envisioned. ugh.

You just sound like an upset "fannie".
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Old 09-27-2010, 12:15 PM    (permalink
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Witten has lost a step and he was never fast to begin with.

I have proposed, and now a proponent of, trading him while his value his still very high.
Genius. Lets trade one of the best TEs in the league. Fresh off a 90 catch and 1000 yard season. That lost step sure showed last year.

What's you're rationale for this? To get Miles more targets? Because it makes absolutely no sense.
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Old 09-27-2010, 12:17 PM    (permalink
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BTW, anyone seen Ogletree? He's been MIA....I think he needs to return to KR, AOA hasn't impressed me whatsoever.
Hurd has passed him on the depth chart. It happened in preseason, judging by the rotations they were using. Hurd isnt playing a lot, but he's actually getting offensive snaps, Oggletree isnt anymore.

As for kick return...AOA may not have dont anything yet. But Ogletree is a terrible kick returner.
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Old 09-27-2010, 12:20 PM    (permalink
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Please trade Witten. I'd be a very grateful Giants fan. Just trade him outside the division of course.
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Old 09-27-2010, 12:28 PM    (permalink
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Main point is many posters here praise mediocre part time players who "display" a flash here or there while "dismissing" others as being trash. The fact is there are lots of average players that you keep not because they "might be All Pros" but b/c they do their job, limit mistakes and contribute to the team.

The players I had mentioned fit, in many ways, that profile and yet they were run out of Dallas to make room for some very average guys ....... you telling me McQuistan is any worse than Barron? NFW. That is my point. Only reason these things happen is old story of hating on Parcells "guys" while loving on crappy Jerrah "guys."

How many big third down runs did we give up last year with crappy Carp on the field???? Yesterday alone? At least he could chase them down and give time to for the D to get there. Chicago game? A more athletic cover guy might have helped on those slants et al. Where is the great Sean Lee who was going to replace Carp with ease?

What has Bennett done in three years? Why did we not take the Bengals first rounder? Based on what? Expected performance of a back-up 20 year old with maturity issues? Bash Parcells for picking Carp but give Jerrah a pass for not taking the Bengals first rounder? Try getting even a 7th round pick for MB now.

Analyse, then make conclusions. Stop being so quick to throw away players simply b/c they are not All-Pros or look good running in shorts ...............

Next love affair I see developing is Dez ... loved the pick but people are talking about him in language I find spurious.... a talent but you'd think this is Jerry Rice's brains and dedication in Randy Moss's body. Slow down kids.
A couple of things...

McQ is a guard, Barron is a tackle. And they both suck. They were hoping to strike some gold with Barron, I suppose. But anyone who's seen him play in St. Louis the last few years, pretty much knew what we were getting. McQ didnt even have a real shot to make the team this year.

Your BP blind love sickens me. I dont give a damn if a guy is a Parcells player or not. He's drafted many a crappy player. Who really cares if he was drafted by Parcells or not?

Where is Sean Lee? Erm....injured.

And a 1st for Bennett had never been confirmed. It was all hear say. They were interested, but for what compensation was not fully known. And Bennett was drafted to play an integral part of a double TE offense, and cause mismatch problems. Why would they trade him after one year? They drafted him for a reason. No, it hadnt come to fruition. But again, easy to say in hindsight. I know you dont want to hear it, but he does show flashes on limited targets and he blocks well. Stop crying over spilt milk...stop living in the past so much. Kid is all of 23, give him some time yet.

You contradcit yourself a lot. The Dez love affair? How about your past Miles Austin love affair? And you tell others to slow down...
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Old 09-27-2010, 12:30 PM    (permalink
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The 0-3 9ers fired their OC an hr. ago.

Jason Garrett: There but for the win in Houston under pressure go you.
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Old 09-27-2010, 12:49 PM    (permalink
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I've been hearing that the 1st rounder for Bennett is an urban legend. Folks with the Cowboys are saying that never happened.
So in one set of comments, Jerrah confirms but now you claim they deny?

I would deny too if I were the Cowboys.
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Old 09-27-2010, 12:51 PM    (permalink
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Genius. Lets trade one of the best TEs in the league. Fresh off a 90 catch and 1000 yard season. That lost step sure showed last year.

What's you're rationale for this? To get Miles more targets? Because it makes absolutely no sense.
I have already explained why

1) Witten is not what he was physically and hits have added up.
2) We have MB who needs to play if we are ever to get anything of value from him.
3) We could get some really good compensation.

This has nothing to do with Miles.
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Old 09-27-2010, 12:53 PM    (permalink
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Please trade Witten. I'd be a very grateful Giants fan. Just trade him outside the division of course.
Same could have been said of Shockey who killed us but it was the right move for the GMen.

Just saying, we have a pretty good backup even if he is a dope. Plus with our backlog of WR their is less to go around.
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Old 09-27-2010, 12:58 PM    (permalink
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A couple of things...

McQ is a guard, Barron is a tackle. And they both suck. They were hoping to strike some gold with Barron, I suppose. But anyone who's seen him play in St. Louis the last few years, pretty much knew what we were getting. McQ didnt even have a real shot to make the team this year.

Your BP blind love sickens me. I dont give a damn if a guy is a Parcells player or not. He's drafted many a crappy player. Who really cares if he was drafted by Parcells or not?

Where is Sean Lee? Erm....injured.

And a 1st for Bennett had never been confirmed. It was all hear say. They were interested, but for what compensation was not fully known. And Bennett was drafted to play an integral part of a double TE offense, and cause mismatch problems. Why would they trade him after one year? They drafted him for a reason. No, it hadnt come to fruition. But again, easy to say in hindsight. I know you dont want to hear it, but he does show flashes on limited targets and he blocks well. Stop crying over spilt milk...stop living in the past so much. Kid is all of 23, give him some time yet.

You contradcit yourself a lot. The Dez love affair? How about your past Miles Austin love affair? And you tell others to slow down...
1. I said Austin had the skills to be a number 1 way back. All of you laughed. That is not a love affair -- that is a statement of opinion which acknowledges much to go.

2. Yes, Dez love affair.

3. I want to give MD his shot. It is you guys who want to keep Witten in front of him. To me, MB is a guy who needs to be challenged and right now he is not. So, wasted pick until Jerrah decides to take a chance.

4. I hated the Carp / Fasano draft. I thought they were both bad picks .. but once you have them .... you should use them to the best of their ability.
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Old 09-27-2010, 01:27 PM    (permalink
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So in one set of comments, Jerrah confirms but now you claim they deny?

I would deny too if I were the Cowboys.
Can you reference JJ saying they were offered a 1st for Bennett? I know it's been reported a lot but I don't remember seeing a quote.
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Old 09-27-2010, 01:27 PM    (permalink
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1. I said Austin had the skills to be a number 1 way back. All of you laughed. That is not a love affair -- that is a statement of opinion which acknowledges much to go.

2. Yes, Dez love affair.

3. I want to give MD his shot. It is you guys who want to keep Witten in front of him. To me, MB is a guy who needs to be challenged and right now he is not. So, wasted pick until Jerrah decides to take a chance.

4. I hated the Carp / Fasano draft. I thought they were both bad picks .. but once you have them .... you should use them to the best of their ability.

1. Obviously. Your the only one who said Austin would be good, you said it before anyone else, your always right about everything and never say anything wrong. Whenever you say or predict something we all flame you, and your always right. What's new? Did I miss anything? If you want(because I know it's coming) you can go back and list the other 5-6 things you got right before, because as we all know this forum isn't about just discussing things openly with other Cowboy fans, it's about pumping up your chest and reminding people as much as you can about what you were right on that no one believed u on.


You should do it more though, still hasn't gotten old to anyone here yet.



2. Riiight. Because people saying "Dez is gonna end up being a really special player one day" is a love affair, heaven forbid someone acknowledge when a young player is playing well. What's so ironic about it is in the NFC East Best DB thread when you were running around pumping up Jenkins before he made it to that level it was ok, but now, people can't even say Dez will be good.


What exact quote that you've read classifies this "love affair"? Or if you say that a young player will be very good does that mean your starting some love affair?


3. It's not a wasted pick because of how extremely young he is. He had 1 really good rookie season and a set back in year 2, this year he's played well in his reserve role and our #2 TE is very important in our offense, he's used more then the primary TE for alot of teams. Way too early to say 1 way or the other. Don't get me wrong he can still be a bust, or a trash player, or a stud, trying to go too far 1 way or the other now is premature.


4. There is no best way to use Carpenter. Did you not see him trying to cover Dustin Keller last nite and get burned for that TD? That was on passing downs, which is what he was going to do here, and what he's supposed to be solid at. He went to the 4-3(which everyone said he needed to be in, on a team with literally no LB's at all) and was cut at weakside before the season. Parcells gave him a shot and he still sucks.


In fact, we should get Parcells back here. Studs like Patrick Turner, Pat White, among the countless DE's and O-line that he's drafted that hasn't stuck would be welcomed here. Obviously he's a much better drafter then Jerrah.
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