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Old 10-01-2010, 03:09 PM    (permalink
thule
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I was just thinking... Where the hell is Ken Hamlin? He just disapeared it seems. Really shows what he was value was.
he just got cut by the Ravens
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Old 10-01-2010, 03:14 PM    (permalink
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I don't think MB3 will be gone next year. Don't get your hopes up yet thule.
I will guarantee he will not be with the dallas cowboys in 2011 unless he restructures his deal. All his guaranteed money he has received and we have the horses in the stable to move on.

2011: $4.25 million, 2012: $5.75 million, 2013: $6.25 million, 2014: $7 million, 2015: Free Agent

In retrospect tho neither MB3 nor Roy Williams have much grounds to say no to restructuring a deal....with that said the cowboys hold all the power here...neither player has played up to their contract and if they want to stay a cowboy it will be at a discount of their current price.
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Old 10-01-2010, 03:42 PM    (permalink
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If Barber comes back I'm gonna be pissed. What a waste of money, I hope we aren't that stupid. Choice is better at this point, and at WORST no drop off. No way we shouldn't be doing a 50/50 split with Choice and Felix at that point.


It's an easy way to save money because I think while we were quiet in FA this year were gonna need to look at a few spots. Interior O-line maybe if someone solid is there.
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Old 10-01-2010, 04:13 PM    (permalink
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I'm not sold on Hamlin so far. He didn't even make the active roster last week. McCray and Church both made it for special teams...and now Church plays in the goal line defense...Hamlin is going to have to do something special to hold his roster spot next year...as a backup you have to be good at special teams and he is already being outplayed...Sensabaugh is playing great this year so be interesting to see if we bring him back...but Hamlin is going to have a fight on his hands if he doesn't make it as a starter and can't see the active roster on game day.
I'm not exactly sold on him as a future starter either. But of the three, he's the best safety. The other two are good special team players, who more than likely will struggle to cover. I know for damn sure Church cant cover and Mccray wasnt much in coverage at the college level. That doesnt mean Hamlin will be some amazing cover safety, either. But I'd give him the go ahead by default. The guy's ceiling is probaby, Ken Hamlin. AOA has the most projectable potential of the bunch. I still think AOA may see a move to corner in his future, however. Especially if they opt for an early round safety, next season.
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Old 10-01-2010, 04:21 PM    (permalink
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I will guarantee he will not be with the dallas cowboys in 2011 unless he restructures his deal. All his guaranteed money he has received and we have the horses in the stable to move on.

2011: $4.25 million, 2012: $5.75 million, 2013: $6.25 million, 2014: $7 million, 2015: Free Agent

In retrospect tho neither MB3 nor Roy Williams have much grounds to say no to restructuring a deal....with that said the cowboys hold all the power here...neither player has played up to their contract and if they want to stay a cowboy it will be at a discount of their current price.
As much of a warrior Barber has been, he has lost a step and doesn't run with the same viciousness. I have read several of these scout pieces on the internet from guys that really know what they are talking about. It is being talked about more and more that Barber just doesn't bring what he once did.
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Old 10-01-2010, 04:23 PM    (permalink
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Man, I know I'm the biggest Barber fan here, but talk about the disrespect the guy gets. He's still the smartest back, still the best blocker, still the best receiver and still the guy who converts the most important short down yardage plays. I don't get why he gets hated so much.

I guess the grass is always greener on the other side for folks. The day I see Barber in another jersey or facing us... is gonna be a sad panda day for me.

I think he would be willing to restructure if there is a salary cap in place. But I'm really not sure that Jerry would ask him to. $4M ain't that much for him. Maybe the following year when he is earning closer to $6M... yeah, that might be the wall that can't be climbed, and I could see THEN that Jerry ask for a restructure.
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Old 10-01-2010, 04:24 PM    (permalink
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Too bad Garrett has a massive man crush on Marion.

I cant believe Barber still sees the bulk of the carries, when JJ has called Garrett out on this several times. I know one of the dmn writers just came out and said Wade has more power than we think...but it seems like Garrett is the one with a lot more power than fans think. Seems to do whatever he damn pleases.
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Old 10-01-2010, 04:33 PM    (permalink
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Man, I know I'm the biggest Barber fan here, but talk about the disrespect the guy gets. He's still the smartest back, still the best blocker, still the best receiver and still the guy who converts the most important short down yardage plays. I don't get why he gets hated so much.

I guess the grass is always greener on the other side for folks. The day I see Barber in another jersey or facing us... is gonna be a sad panda day for me.

I think he would be willing to restructure if there is a salary cap in place. But I'm really not sure that Jerry would ask him to. $4M ain't that much for him. Maybe the following year when he is earning closer to $6M... yeah, that might be the wall that can't be climbed, and I could see THEN that Jerry ask for a restructure.
We all loved Barber. But it's more than apparent that he is not what he was. The guy is going down the same road as the great power backs before him. He and Brandon Jacobs are just shells of what they used to be.

I still love Barber as a person and a short yardage back...but there is no way in hell, he's the best back on the team anymore. As for blocking, he still gets it done. But Choice comes in on damn near every 3rd and normal yardage to block as well, and does a fine job. And Felix is an oft-underrated blocker, who never gives up anything and always picks up the right man. And as for receiving...they all catch the ball well out of the backfield, and Felix is the one who should see the ball more in his hands in the passing game.

Barber cant keep getting by because of name recognition. This reminds me of when Eddie George kept getting the rock, even though he was damn near finished. Barber can still be effective, but I think Garrett is freaking crazy to give him the bulk of the carries.
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Old 10-01-2010, 04:33 PM    (permalink
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Man, I know I'm the biggest Barber fan here, but talk about the disrespect the guy gets. He's still the smartest back, still the best blocker, still the best receiver and still the guy who converts the most important short down yardage plays. I don't get why he gets hated so much.

I guess the grass is always greener on the other side for folks. The day I see Barber in another jersey or facing us... is gonna be a sad panda day for me.

I think he would be willing to restructure if there is a salary cap in place. But I'm really not sure that Jerry would ask him to. $4M ain't that much for him. Maybe the following year when he is earning closer to $6M... yeah, that might be the wall that can't be climbed, and I could see THEN that Jerry ask for a restructure.

I don't think he's trash, but like MOTH said I do see too many times he's running lateral and he's not fast enough to do that. He is bouncing way too many runs outside then he used to do.


That said, do you see a big difference in performance or skill with him over Choice? I don't. It may be old, but when Choice took over in December as our only RB as a rookie and tore through Pittsburgh, Baltimore, and 2 more strong D's who I'm forgetting now, he looked better then anytime Barber has since he's gotten a contract.


Maybe Choice isn't better(which I think he honestly is), but for what Barber is getting paid and Choice is getting paid it's an easy choice. If we bring back Barber again with that big ass contract I'll be pissed, hell if he even restructures I'd be pissed because we don't need to be playing favorites.


If it was a RB competition and a fair one Choice would beat him out. I guess I just don't think he deserves, or should get 90% of the carries with the 10% split up to the two better backs. It's a mystery to me.


I am firmly in the "prove it" category with Felix, but Jesus when he's got 7 carries for 40+ yards why can't we keep feeding him? He should get 15 a week, why are we being so scared with him and so in love with banging 3 yards with Barber? I don't know. Just one of those things that angers me when watching the games.
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Old 10-01-2010, 04:36 PM    (permalink
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We all loved Barber. But it's more than apparent that he is not what he was. The guy is going down the same road as the great power backs before him. He and Brandon Jacobs are just shells of what they used to be.

I still love Barber as a person and a short yardage back...but there is no way in hell, he's the best back on the team anymore. As for blocking, he still gets it done. But Choice comes in on damn near every 3rd and normal yardage to block as well, and does a fine job. And Felix is an oft-underrated blocker, who never gives up anything and always picks up the right man. And as for receiving...they all catch the ball well out of the backfield, and Felix is the one who should see the ball more in his hands in the passing game.

Barber cant keep getting by because of name recognition. This reminds me of when Eddie George kept getting the rock, even though he was damn near finished. Barber can still be effective, but I think Garrett is freaking crazy to give him the bulk of the carries.
So Barber is not what he once was, but Felix gets the OL sucks excuse? Hmmm....
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Old 10-01-2010, 04:38 PM    (permalink
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I don't think he's trash, but like MOTH said I do see too many times he's running lateral and he's not fast enough to do that. He is bouncing way too many runs outside then he used to do.


That said, do you see a big difference in performance or skill with him over Choice? I don't. It may be old, but when Choice took over in December as our only RB as a rookie and tore through Pittsburgh, Baltimore, and 2 more strong D's who I'm forgetting now, he looked better then anytime Barber has since he's gotten a contract.


Maybe Choice isn't better(which I think he honestly is), but for what Barber is getting paid and Choice is getting paid it's an easy choice. If we bring back Barber again with that big ass contract I'll be pissed, hell if he even restructures I'd be pissed because we don't need to be playing favorites.


If it was a RB competition and a fair one Choice would beat him out. I guess I just don't think he deserves, or should get 90% of the carries with the 10% split up to the two better backs. It's a mystery to me.


I am firmly in the "prove it" category with Felix, but Jesus when he's got 7 carries for 40+ yards why can't we keep feeding him? He should get 15 a week, why are we being so scared with him and so in love with banging 3 yards with Barber? I don't know. Just one of those things that angers me when watching the games.
I don't think your statement about him bouncing it out laterally all the time is an accurate statement.
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Old 10-01-2010, 04:42 PM    (permalink
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So Barber is not what he once was, but Felix gets the OL sucks excuse? Hmmm....
ugh. Go re-read my posts, if you have to. I said Marion's averages would be better behind a better line as well. But there is also a difference in playcall when they run, space plays, opposed to between the tackles. There is a difference in blocking. And our team has had a problem sealing off the edge until last week. And just watch Marion...he's slower and braces for contact much earlier. He bounces way too many runs outside and he doesnt have the speed to gain anything off of these anymore. He runs laterally way too much. The guy gains 3 yards a pop, and is visably worn down. He's not what he was, not even close.

I made note of all the averages being lower...but playcall makes a huge difference as well, when your O-Line struggles in some areas of run blocking.

Hell look at Choice, he's averaging like 2.8 yards per carry or something like that. But he also sees damn near all of his carries out of shotgun or the wild cat, which is ******** on Garrett's behalf.
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Old 10-01-2010, 04:44 PM    (permalink
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I don't think your statement about him bouncing it out laterally all the time is an accurate statement.
BS. lol.

I was screaming at him last game, to run north-south. He kept running sideways, despite having holes to run through. There was a reason he only averaged 3 yards per carry last week.

In fairness to Marion, though...this is something he's done throughout his career, but he doesnt have the speed to do it anymore.
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Old 10-01-2010, 04:46 PM    (permalink
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I don't think your statement about him bouncing it out laterally all the time is an accurate statement.
I can't say how many times he does it, but I know MOTH mentioned screaming at the TV about him trying to bounce things outside too often and I remember having that same conversation with a friend while watching a game.


"why in the hell does he always try and bounce runs to the outside lately?"


"since when did he start trying to run sideways all the time?"


It does happen alot, and more then he used to do. Not sure why, but I'm gonna start to tivo the games and go back and watch, it's not every play because sometimes the holes are wide open, but I've seen him take dive plays and end up running out of bounds for a no yard gain a handful of times, when the old Barber bulldozes for a 2-3 yard gain.


I was as big of a Barber fan as there was especially in this forum, I definately notice that change.


Still though, do you think he's that much better then Choice now?
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Old 10-01-2010, 05:02 PM    (permalink
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Know what's going to be interesting? Seeing how much we pay Doug Free. He's an FA at the end of the year. As Wade said earlier this week, Free has been our best O-Lineman this year.
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Old 10-01-2010, 05:08 PM    (permalink
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Interior O-line maybe if someone solid is there.
About FA OL: they didnt go after McNeill when he was on the mkt. He was insanely expensive but any elite OL on the FA will be.

I expected the 9ers to go after McNeill after benching Davis, but they didn't either. Maybe he & the Bolts are stuck with each other in their marriage made in hell.

I expect Dallas to pay Free chingaderoes of big $ & draft someone for the front 5 OL, hopefully a pure center. Gurode may be on his last legs & he's a converted guard anyway.
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Old 10-01-2010, 05:24 PM    (permalink
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Man, I know I'm the biggest Barber fan here, but talk about the disrespect the guy gets. He's still the smartest back, still the best blocker, still the best receiver and still the guy who converts the most important short down yardage plays. I don't get why he gets hated so much.

I guess the grass is always greener on the other side for folks. The day I see Barber in another jersey or facing us... is gonna be a sad panda day for me.

I think he would be willing to restructure if there is a salary cap in place. But I'm really not sure that Jerry would ask him to. $4M ain't that much for him. Maybe the following year when he is earning closer to $6M... yeah, that might be the wall that can't be climbed, and I could see THEN that Jerry ask for a restructure.
Dude, I love Barber, but as the others have said here, power backs tend to only have 4 of 5 good years in them. And Barber's style is just so violent.

He still has plenty of value. The load just needs to be flipped. Felix needs to get the 18 touches and Barber the 8 (I think that's how it played out against Houston).
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Old 10-01-2010, 05:33 PM    (permalink
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I can't say how many times he does it, but I know MOTH mentioned screaming at the TV about him trying to bounce things outside too often and I remember having that same conversation with a friend while watching a game.


"why in the hell does he always try and bounce runs to the outside lately?"


"since when did he start trying to run sideways all the time?"


It does happen alot, and more then he used to do. Not sure why, but I'm gonna start to tivo the games and go back and watch, it's not every play because sometimes the holes are wide open, but I've seen him take dive plays and end up running out of bounds for a no yard gain a handful of times, when the old Barber bulldozes for a 2-3 yard gain.


I was as big of a Barber fan as there was especially in this forum, I definately notice that change.


Still though, do you think he's that much better then Choice now?
Before we have a "yes he does" or "no he doesn't" arguement, why don't we just count it out loud here next Sunday. (Hopefully, the game is televised here).

As for Choice... yeah, he needs the ball more. Is he better than Barber? The popular opinion says Yes... but we beat Washington if Choice doesn't fumble.
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Old 10-02-2010, 04:12 PM    (permalink
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If you have time this weekend check out this article. I find some extremely interesting arguments in there.
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Old 10-02-2010, 05:11 PM    (permalink
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If you have time this weekend check out this article. I find some extremely interesting arguments in there.
Link?? ?
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Old 10-03-2010, 03:07 PM    (permalink
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Anyone wanna start some discussion here?

Hopefully McNabb can pull off some magic in philly. I'm still not on the Vick bandwagon.
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Old 10-03-2010, 04:21 PM    (permalink
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Link?? ?
http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2010/...ard-davis-size

my bad...but like I said great article.
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Old 10-04-2010, 12:01 AM    (permalink
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I still like Barber, but he is overpaid. Is he better than Choice? I would say he is a little better at this point. But he doesnt make a liitle more money. He makes a lot more money.

Who didn't love Barber during his day? We all did. But he makes a lot of cash. I was moved when D mentioned Barber playing in another uniform. I don't want to see that. But I didn't want to see Emmit playing for the Cards.

Bottom line-Barber is not totally washed up. But he is overpaid. We could use that money elsewhere.

And his burst is gone. Let's let the young horses run
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Old 10-04-2010, 04:44 AM    (permalink
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I'd be somewhat curious to see if we get a deal done with Doug Free before the end of the season. He's already proved he has a starting spot on this line...he's got 9 games under his belt at both tackle positions...lets ink him up during the bye week.
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Old 10-04-2010, 01:19 PM    (permalink
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I'd be somewhat curious to see if we get a deal done with Doug Free before the end of the season. He's already proved he has a starting spot on this line...he's got 9 games under his belt at both tackle positions...lets ink him up during the bye week.
I'd be all for that as well. He's the only sure thing on our line as far as the future goes.

I'm all for trading for Jared Gaither and/or Logan Mankins too, but I know that is a pipe dream.
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