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Old 11-12-2010, 04:06 PM    (permalink
baghdadbob
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I can get why folks don't like the idea of trading Pro-Bowl skill players and taking an Andrew luck but I think this team has big holes in the trenches and in the middle of the D that won't get solved in a normal draft or FA. I would encourage folks to be creative in evaluating the chances.

Sitting around on Pro-Bowlers as they get older and refusing to trade them for even what may be considered inferior talent works if you get real young guys with proven records who still have upside.

Witten is what he is and if you could swap Witten for a young Pro Bowl type OG wouldn't you given MBennett is there? If you could swap, Austin for a Pro Bowl caliber ILB and a Safety wouldn't you?

I think with the skill players on the field (Williams, Dez, etc) -- it would be great to swap that unnecessary excess talent for needed trench talent.

But, I understand it has low popularity.
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Old 11-12-2010, 04:09 PM    (permalink
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You're talking about something that doesnt happen in the NFL.

Trades arent even that prevelent in the league. Do you know how rare pro bowl for pro bowl type trades are? They dont happen, it's not Madden we're talking here. Why would anyone trade a healthy pro bowl offensive lineman? Unless there were contract problems, it aint happening.
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Old 11-12-2010, 04:09 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by M.O.T.H. View Post
Thinking that there is even a single iota of a chance that we take Luck, is a hilarious notion.

It's not happening gentlemen. You dont just give up on Qbs of Romo's caliber. Especially one that just entered the prime of his career. How soon people forget that he's coming off the best year of his career last season. And he did indeed, carry this team on his back many a time. Gah.

To think Romo is the reason we dont succeed further, is also equally hilarious.
I think the take Luck and trade Romo idea is not about puttin down Romo, bro.

I think it is about justifying using a #1 pick on a #1 talent and not just taking a guy who could as easily be had 5/15/25 and pay him #1 money.

Luck is a #1 talent. A few teams would kill to have him. If we get him, we have an enviable position b/c we can use that over flow of talent to fill other (multiple) holes.

And bottom line of Romo bro is he is frequently injured, is spotty in big games, and is turnover prone. So, I love him bro but I can also see why it makes sense if he can restock your OG or ILB positions.
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Old 11-12-2010, 04:11 PM    (permalink
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You're talking about something that doesnt happen in the NFL.

Trades arent even that prevelent in the league. Do you know how rare pro bowl for pro bowl type trades are? They dont happen, it's not Madden we're talking here. Why would anyone trade a healthy pro bowl offensive lineman? Unless there were contract problems, it aint happening.
How many Pro Bowlers has New Orleans picked up via trades?

I agree the currency of choice is draft pick. They are like money. Trading player for player is like trying to barter. Tough.

But you have to be open to trying in order to make big changes fast.
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Old 11-12-2010, 04:13 PM    (permalink
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Romo is not frequently injured...he had two freak injuries. One of which, came from piss poor blocking.

You dont see teams giving up on pro bowl caliber Qbs for rookies. Regardless of who that rookie may be. Dallas isnt ready to tear down the walls. You have the offensive skill players to compete for a championship now. The O-Line is the major culprit and needs to be addressed...drafting a QB is starting over and in turn, setting your franchise back. You wouldnt be maximizing all that offensive talent.
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Old 11-12-2010, 04:14 PM    (permalink
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You dont see teams giving up on pro bowl caliber Qbs for rookies. Regardless of who that rookie may be.
Really? Kurt Warner for Manning. Brees for Rivers.

Not the point I am making but these "rules" people point to for backing up their preferences are arbitrary.

I got nothing bad about Romo bro but he ain;t all that either. And if you could tell me we get Luck, trade Romo and have a top1-2-3 OL in the process sign me up. Or a top 1-2-3 D.

We need 2 guys on each side of the ball in the trenches to be very good. 4 players total. Romo, WItten and Austin will get you that to spare. 2 of the 3 will.

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Old 11-12-2010, 04:18 PM    (permalink
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How many Pro Bowlers has New Orleans picked up via trades?

I agree the currency of choice is draft pick. They are like money. Trading player for player is like trying to barter. Tough.

But you have to be open to trying in order to make big changes fast.
The Saints? Like who?

They never had any pro bowler for pro bowler deals, that I cant think of.

Vilma/Shockey were both in bad situations on their respective teams. Vilma was garbage in the 34 and well, Shockey was a dick, who kept getting injured.

It's a rare thing to see a team trade an established star away...especially for another good player in return.
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Old 11-12-2010, 04:25 PM    (permalink
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Really? Kurt Warner for Manning. Brees for Rivers.

Not the point I am making but these "rules" people point to for backing up their preferences are arbitrary.

I got nothing bad about Romo bro but he ain;t all that either. And if you could tell me we get Luck, trade Romo and have a top1-2-3 OL in the process sign me up. Or a top 1-2-3 D.

We need 2 guys on each side of the ball in the trenches to be very good. 4 players total. Romo, WItten and Austin will get you that to spare. 2 of the 3 will.
What? Kurt Warner for Manning?

Warner's only year with the Giants, was also Eli's first year. He was a stop-gap, and it didnt work out. And Warner wasnt even the starter for the Rams, his previous year in St. Louis. They moved on to Bulger. Warner's career took a turn for the worse, right before he even got to the Giants. A lot of people thought he was done. That situation is in no way the same.

As for Brees/Rivers. Brees was hardly the pro bowl talent he is today when they drafted Rivers. His breakout year came the season they selected him. No one really expected Brees to break out like he did, while Rivers sat on the bench for a year.

Ugh. You're living in a fantasy world if you think we're trading any of those guys.
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Old 11-12-2010, 04:26 PM    (permalink
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I'm am truly amazed that folks are wanting to get rid of Romo.
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Old 11-12-2010, 05:45 PM    (permalink
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What? Kurt Warner for Manning?

Warner's only year with the Giants, was also Eli's first year. He was a stop-gap, and it didnt work out. And Warner wasnt even the starter for the Rams, his previous year in St. Louis. They moved on to Bulger. Warner's career took a turn for the worse, right before he even got to the Giants. A lot of people thought he was done. That situation is in no way the same.

As for Brees/Rivers. Brees was hardly the pro bowl talent he is today when they drafted Rivers. His breakout year came the season they selected him. No one really expected Brees to break out like he did, while Rivers sat on the bench for a year.

Ugh. You're living in a fantasy world if you think we're trading any of those guys.
Warner and Brees were All Pros. New Orleans picked up Vilma and Shockey. You are dismissing my points without really re-evaluating yours.

With respect to if "we are thinking about it"... probably not b/c that is not the way the GM thinks and it reflects in the direction this team has gone under his control -- which is over pay for older guys.

By the way, if you told me trading the #1 for some serious OG or ILB help plus some later picks would be fine too.

My point is bro that we are not filling these holes in the team without taking some moves/risks. We have 4-5 big holes that will be hard to fill via FA or Draft.

FA is expensive and word out is Jones is a bit broke right now. Draft is, as you point out, high risk. So your other alternative is counting on your DEPTH and trading away a few front line guys for other starters.

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Old 11-12-2010, 05:49 PM    (permalink
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Warner and Brees were All Pros. New Orleans picked up Vilma and Shockey. You are dismissing my points without really re-evaluating yours.

With respect to if "we are thinking about it"... probably not b/c that is not the way the GM thinks and it reflects in the direction this team has gone under his control -- which is over pay for older guys.
Kurt Warner was believed to be washed up and Brees wasnt Brees yet. So you're not really making any sense.

Brees first really good season came in the same year they drafted Rivers. Then they kept Drew for one more year, before letting Rivers take over. Even that decision was made easier because of a Brees' injury. They obviously didnt view Brees as their franchise Qb, prior to drafting Rivers. He was just an average QB at the time.

And again, Kurt was just a veteran stop-gap. Who hadnt had a good season in years.
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Old 11-12-2010, 06:04 PM    (permalink
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Kurt Warner was believed to be washed up and Brees wasnt Brees yet. So you're not really making any sense.

Brees first really good season came in the same year they drafted Rivers. Then they kept Drew for one more year, before letting Rivers take over. Even that decision was made easier because of a Brees' injury. They obviously didnt view Brees as their franchise Qb, prior to drafting Rivers. He was just an average QB at the time.

And again, Kurt was just a veteran stop-gap. Who hadnt had a good season in years.
Bro, I live in the East and the Manning choice was all about the future for the GMen. Feeling was he was Peyton II and the GMen were not going to pass on that possibility. So they took a risk with the trade as well as moving Warner. To boot, it has had a real cost and looked bad for awhile as River played and other picks the GMen gave up turned in Merrimen, Kaeding and some others.

It was a gutsy move by the GMen that even today folks would say SD got the best of it.

But, let us not argue tactics, talk big ideas, strategy. Prsonnel strategy, not specific personnel.

Do you agree we have 4-5 big holes that in order to compete next year we need to trade depth (Witten, WR, RB, et al) for some young front line help?

FA ain't working cuz the GM has no cash. Draft takes time for OL, ILB, S, etc......

Your thoughts?
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Old 11-12-2010, 06:05 PM    (permalink
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Leopards don't change their spots & neither does Jerry.

He is still going for the sexy household name HC:

http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/nfl...ory?id=5795997

I think he is referring to the 1st 3 names on that list in the box to the right, Cowher, Gruden, & Billick. Personally I would rather keep Garrett than any of those arrogant former SB winners, emphasis there on the "former." Garrett will have to earn it like he said, that means winning some games this yr.

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Old 11-12-2010, 06:19 PM    (permalink
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Steve Smith, David Diehl, and Shaun O'Hara are out.

We're still gonna love by 3 TD's+, but this game may get interesting.
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Old 11-12-2010, 06:21 PM    (permalink
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Bro, I live in the East and the Manning choice was all about the future for the GMen. Feeling was he was Peyton II and the GMen were not going to pass on that possibility. So they took a risk with the trade as well as moving Warner. To boot, it has had a real cost and looked bad for awhile as River played and other picks the GMen gave up turned in Merrimen, Kaeding and some others.

It was a gutsy move by the GMen that even today folks would say SD got the best of it.

But, let us not argue tactics, talk big ideas, strategy. Prsonnel strategy, not specific personnel.

Do you agree we have 4-5 big holes that in order to compete next year we need to trade depth (Witten, WR, RB, et al) for some young front line help?

FA ain't working cuz the GM has no cash. Draft takes time for OL, ILB, S, etc......

Your thoughts?
uhhhhhhh. The point is...the Dallas and New York situations have nothing in common. Romo is in the prime of his career...Warner, was a veteran stop-gap, who again, sucked for several consecutive years before landing with NY. He was only going to be the QB for a year or two, before a rookie QB took over. That is not the same situation. You're failing to realize that Warner was playing horrible football and many thought he was at the tail end of his career at that point.

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Do you agree we have 4-5 big holes that in order to compete next year we need to trade depth (Witten, WR, RB, et al) for some young front line help?
Errrr. No. I dont know what league you're watching, but these trades dont happen. Not when we're talking about moving Witten, Romo, or Miles. jeez. No one knows what exactly will happen with the labor agreements or how much money will be available for Jerry. That said, we can sure cut a lot of dead weight/dead money this upcoming season. Namely Leonard Davis/Marion Barber, among others. We need to address o-line through the draft, and early. Its been neglected. We need a youth movement along the line. We need youth and athleticism. And teams dont just trade good O-lineman, for anyone. We'll have to tackle that via the draft and FA. Player for player deals dont happen often. At best, you'll get picks...and that still wont come by trading Miles, Romo, or Witten. They're not going anywhere, again...this isnt Madden. And those are three of our most indispensable players.

And if you want to win...you'd have a much better shot at that with Romo and a revamped line...rather than a rookie QB and no Miles Austin or Witten.

Yes, we have holes to fill...but these moves you're talking about can have HUGE adverse effects and are in no way realistic possibilities to begin with. But anyway, QB is the least of our worries at this point. Our biggest needs are by far O-Line and the secondary. And these certainly could be sured up through the draft, FA, and with schematic changes brought fourth by a new coaching staff.
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Old 11-12-2010, 06:32 PM    (permalink
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If I believed what you just said, I'd think there's no way NFL teams will ever draft another QB bust in the first round. lol. Oh no. I don't believe that for a second. Look how they loved Locker last year and this season he looks like crap.

I don't think we'll be picking #1 overall, and I'll stick to that. I think this conversation will be funny at the end of the season. But ok. Let's say we are picking #1. If that's the case, then I would suggest trading down.

There will be a time for us to address QB, and when that time comes, we'll use our first rounder then. It won't be for at least another 5 years. Even you agreed that Romo's window is that long.
Definitely not naive enough to think there won't be another bust...just saying since Russell we haven't seen one...you could also argue that we are "due" for a bust but that argument also lacks substance.

Quote:
I'm not saying Luck can't bust...I'm just saying it's a safe bet that he'll be a good player in this league. And the fact that he is 10 years younger gives us a bigger opportunity for victory.
The #1 pick's history that was used on QB's are relatively safe if you look back at the history. So I think calling Luck as safe hit to work out has substance.

Locker had a ton of hype..but if you remember there was a ton of flack going towards McShay for hyping him up....the scouts that actually matter on draft day weren't the ones touting him...it was a media driven hype.

I also don't think we'll have the #1 pick...but if the rumors that the locker room doesn't like Garrett is true...and he can't get them on board...we could easily see this team not show up on the field...at this point it's up to the players...if we have the effort we've had the last 2 weeks we won't win a game...you just don't get by on talent at this level. This game is huge because it will show if the players are on board or not.

I'd also prefer to trade down if we had the first pick in the draft. However that said if you can't find the trade partner I think you'd still be better off going with luck although Peterson would definitely warrant the selection if he truly does grade out as elite like most people think.

I'm not a big advocate on getting rid of Romo I don't think he is the problem...but I can see where drafting luck would make some sense to some people.

That said trading Austin fresh of a new contract is one of the moronic things i've ever heard.
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Old 11-12-2010, 06:33 PM    (permalink
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I couldnt imagine us going 1-15, even as bad we are. That said, I dont expect Garrett to reel off 4 additional wins either.
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Old 11-12-2010, 06:42 PM    (permalink
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We are either going to see a focused team or we aren't...I think we'll have a much better gauge at what to look for after our game on sunday. Until then it's such a crap shoot.
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Old 11-12-2010, 06:44 PM    (permalink
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Bob's back Bro...LMAO
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Old 11-12-2010, 06:47 PM    (permalink
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There isnt much to be excited about...I just hope Bowen beasts. His bull rush is ridiculous.

Bryan Mccann gives me something else to be excited about, I guess...he's a pretty flashy kick return guy.
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Old 11-12-2010, 06:51 PM    (permalink
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Definitely ........ I'd also prefer to trade down if we had the first pick in the draft. However that said if you can't find the trade partner I think you'd still be better off going with luck although Peterson would definitely warrant the selection if he truly does grade out as elite like most people think. I'm not a big advocate on getting rid of Romo I don't think he is the problem...but I can see where drafting luck would make some sense to some people. That said trading Austin fresh of a new contract is one of the moronic things i've ever heard.
Well, this to me is exactly what the issue is with Jerry Jones and much of the fan base ..... everyone has "sacred cow" players.

To me, at 1-7 with the holes we have in some spots and over flow talent in others -- it is all about improving the roster and on-field product. If that means trading a star -- so be it. This is not about Tony or Miles and any other player we may like -- it is about the Cowboys.

So sitting around saying "him yes but him no" -- to me -- is moronic given the situation. It all depends on what the market values the player at and what that value gets you back.
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Old 11-12-2010, 06:54 PM    (permalink
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Well, this to me is exactly what the issue is with Jerry Jones and much of the fan base ..... everyone has "sacred cow" players.

To me, at 1-7 with the holes we have in some spots and over flow talent in others -- it is all about improving the roster and on-field product. If that means trading a star -- so be it. This is not about Tony or Miles and any other player we may like -- it is about the Cowboys.
I'm not sure how this was meant to be directed at me I just want to stand behind what I said.

You don't trade players you just invested 45million into. You don't cut a guy who has 18 million in guaranteed money. I don't care who you are it doesn't happen.

Same reason why neither Roy Williams was cut when they weren't performing...cap prohibits these things most of the time...but cap or not...you don't pay players to play for other teams unless they are cancerous....no way can you paint Austin as a problem off the field.
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Old 11-12-2010, 06:56 PM    (permalink
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Has Bob soured on Miles already?

Trading Miles Austin? That's like the anti-Bob. haha.
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Old 11-12-2010, 07:45 PM    (permalink
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This is not madden. Like MOTH said, those trades don't happen. Your talking about trading multiple players to other team and trying it get better value in return. this isn't madden. The only trades that will happen are maybe 4th or 5th rounder type for Roy/Barber.

This team needs to address atleast 1 o-lineman in FA, take peterson or amukamara with or pick, then o-lineman again after that.

There is no other plan that makes as much sense.
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Old 11-12-2010, 08:17 PM    (permalink
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Has Bob soured on Miles already?

Trading Miles Austin? That's like the anti-Bob. haha.
No, he just wants it to happen so he can say how stupid "Jerrah" is again!
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