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Old 11-15-2010, 08:39 PM    (permalink
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To be honest, I couldn't tell you, but I don't think it's about stats either. A player like dareus can make a game changing play at any moment. Spears and igor don't.

Disclaimer: I'm only saying this if prince and PP are off the board. If one of them is still there, obviously roger goodell better be at the podium with 9 minutes left on our pick. (considering the NFL changed 1 round time to 10 minutes)

What else would you do? No value fits any needs at all.
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Old 11-16-2010, 02:41 AM    (permalink
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I love some of the 3-4 DE prospects this year. I think it's going to be one of the best year's ever for the position. But at the same time... if you look around the league... these guys just aren't major playmakers. Yeah, they're hella important. Don't get me wrong. But fact is, not many are taken with Top 10 picks of the draft. BECAUSE they aren't playmakers. I was in love with Chris Long as a prospect and he went high. Safe to say, that wasn't the best pick they could've made. Look at Tyson Jackson... Wanna bet the great Polian wants a redo? What did Polian do the following year? Eric Berry. Yeah, he learned his lesson.

Why not take a playmaker (like Jerry loves to do) and then address it later in the draft. It's deep. Get me Marvin Austin later in the draft. Dude is gonna wreak havoc in the NFL and he's gonna fall in the draft.
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Old 11-16-2010, 02:56 AM    (permalink
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I love some of the 3-4 DE prospects this year. I think it's going to be one of the best year's ever for the position. But at the same time... if you look around the league... these guys just aren't major playmakers. Yeah, they're hella important. Don't get me wrong. But fact is, not many are taken with Top 10 picks of the draft. BECAUSE they aren't playmakers. I was in love with Chris Long as a prospect and he went high. Safe to say, that wasn't the best pick they could've made. Look at Tyson Jackson... Wanna bet the great Polian wants a redo? What did Polian do the following year? Eric Berry. Yeah, he learned his lesson.

Why not take a playmaker (like Jerry loves to do) and then address it later in the draft. It's deep. Get me Marvin Austin later in the draft. Dude is gonna wreak havoc in the NFL and he's gonna fall in the draft.
Just depends what is available. Let's just be hypothetical here.

We pick at #8. Both top rated CB's are gone and no OT or S prospect rates....where else do you go. WR talent will be good here but no. QB should have value here but no. Doesn't look like any LB should be here talent wise...maybe Ayers if he works out off the charts like rumored. Probably an edge rusher up here too. But breaking down the draft this early it looks like DL is going to be the best bang for your buck. If thats the case we either pick one or trade down. That said we've been biten by trading down recently I don't think it's a great approach. We should have a chance at an elite player if we are in the top 10. It's about adding the most talented players we can where we don't already have depth. With 3 FA 5-techs I think it'll be safe to say we can invest there. Also it's been blogged that we've been busy scouting the top DL in the country thus far...that should tell us something.
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Old 11-16-2010, 01:25 PM    (permalink
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Just to play devil's advocate.. Answer me this. Who are the best 3-4 DEs in the game right now?
Smith, Ngata and Dockett off the top of my head.
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Old 11-16-2010, 02:05 PM    (permalink
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Get me Marvin Austin later in the draft.
Marvin Austin is terrible.
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Old 11-16-2010, 02:17 PM    (permalink
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D and Thule I think you guys both make great points.


You can get a 5 tech later in the draft, not alot of those guys are play-makers either. Obviously if you think your getting the next Ngata you take him but I don't know if we see a guy that talented or dominating yet. I also think that if we pick around 8 that's where your bang for your buck is.


Make a BB for the best draft prospects, top 15. ONLY positions you'll see are QB, WR, DE, CB. That's it. Anyone else and your probably reaching. I would love it if we could grab an ILB, can Hightower come out? Because we could really use one, but I'm still not trying to reach for a guy because we need that position.


If Prince is gone, we almost have to go with a DE, hopefully a disruptive one off the edge that can do it all, because I don't see another position that makes sense if your picking in that range.
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Old 11-16-2010, 02:25 PM    (permalink
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That's what I'm saying. If prince and PP are gone, there is no direction you can go but DE. You can't trade down, because no CB or OT are worth an picks above 20 after prince and PP, and that would just be a crazy value loss. You gotta take the best DL left.

There is no other way. Unless there is a stud ILB, but i don't see him right now..
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Old 11-16-2010, 02:28 PM    (permalink
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Ok, so I had a thought while reading all this talk about 5 Techs......

Does anyone have a list of teams in college (Even just FBS) that run the 3-4?

How about we take a guy that has been playing that position for 4 years instead of converting somebody that is going to take at least a year to learn the basics of the position.


Ok so basically I would like to se a list as I have looked and can't find one myself.
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Old 11-16-2010, 03:13 PM    (permalink
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Virginia and Alabama off the top of my head, I would have to look around to find others. I think SCAR may be one of the others.
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Old 11-16-2010, 03:18 PM    (permalink
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D and Thule I think you guys both make great points.


You can get a 5 tech later in the draft, not alot of those guys are play-makers either. Obviously if you think your getting the next Ngata you take him but I don't know if we see a guy that talented or dominating yet. I also think that if we pick around 8 that's where your bang for your buck is.


Make a BB for the best draft prospects, top 15. ONLY positions you'll see are QB, WR, DE, CB. That's it. Anyone else and your probably reaching. I would love it if we could grab an ILB, can Hightower come out? Because we could really use one, but I'm still not trying to reach for a guy because we need that position.


If Prince is gone, we almost have to go with a DE, hopefully a disruptive one off the edge that can do it all, because I don't see another position that makes sense if your picking in that range.


Actually the more I think about it, if we are picking 8th I want to try and trade up for Prince just to avoid taking a DE that high. I doubt he goes in the top 4 picks, I'd guess 5-8 range which is attainable.


Stephen Bowen is a beast, Igor does his job, and while people bring up Adrian Clayborn I don't think his best fit is in a 3-4 and the last thing we need is another JAG(Marcus Spears), playing DE for us, that we used a top 10 pick to get.
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Old 11-16-2010, 03:56 PM    (permalink
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Marvin Austin is terrible.
You know... when I hear people say that, I keep thinking... good. Think that way. I want to nab him as late in the draft as possible, because he's going to prove a lot of doubters wrong in the NFL.
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Old 11-16-2010, 03:57 PM    (permalink
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Ok, so I had a thought while reading all this talk about 5 Techs......

Does anyone have a list of teams in college (Even just FBS) that run the 3-4?

How about we take a guy that has been playing that position for 4 years instead of converting somebody that is going to take at least a year to learn the basics of the position.


Ok so basically I would like to se a list as I have looked and can't find one myself.
It doesn't matter which teams run the 3-4. What you're looking for is basically body type/skill set. The benefit in experience is marginal.
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Old 11-16-2010, 06:09 PM    (permalink
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Ok, so I had a thought while reading all this talk about 5 Techs......

Does anyone have a list of teams in college (Even just FBS) that run the 3-4?

How about we take a guy that has been playing that position for 4 years instead of converting somebody that is going to take at least a year to learn the basics of the position.


Ok so basically I would like to se a list as I have looked and can't find one myself.
Cal and Michigan I know off the top of my head to add to Virginia and Alabama.

Cameron Jordan from Cal is neck and neck with Marcell Dareus from Alabama as far as guys who have a ton of experience playing the 5-tech. I like Dareus more...but it's probably just because I like his body more. He just looks like a NFL player. That said I haven't watched enough of Jordan up to this point....but his hype is intriguing.
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Old 11-16-2010, 06:58 PM    (permalink
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Virginia and Alabama off the top of my head, I would have to look around to find others. I think SCAR may be one of the others.
Not SCAR...they run varying 4-2-5 and 4-3 bases.

Our DEs are undersized.

I sure wish we did run a 34 back in the day. We had outstanding personel for it...when he had Clifton Geathers, Kenrick Ellis, the Brinkley Brothers, Eric Norwood, Cliff Matthews, Ladi Ajyiboye, Nate Pepper, Travian Robertson, Melvin Ingram was a giant LB at the time, opposed to a DT. This is also when we had one of the best secondaries in the nation.

But of course, our would be NT Kenrick Ellis was a moron.
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Old 11-16-2010, 08:02 PM    (permalink
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Cal and Michigan I know off the top of my head to add to Virginia and Alabama.
Michigan is a weird scheme that doesn't work. It's a 3-3.5-4.5. It's definitely not a traditional 3-4, though I wish it were. It doesn't work because of personnel, though.

You guys should want Mike Martin whenever he decides to come out. I fap nightly to Mike Martin highlights.
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Old 11-16-2010, 08:03 PM    (permalink
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You know... when I hear people say that, I keep thinking... good. Think that way. I want to nab him as late in the draft as possible, because he's going to prove a lot of doubters wrong in the NFL.
Nab him whenever you want. It would be a mistake. He's just not a good player.
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Old 11-16-2010, 08:46 PM    (permalink
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I don't think that taking a DE high would be a necessity unless there is just an absolute stud there. To be honest I'd be fine with moving Ratliff out there and having Bowen start if he keeps impressing with everyone else hurt. I want a guy who can cause some havoc there besides what they have, but I think that there are other positions that need some attention with a high pick. Namely OL and secondary. If Peterson and Amukamara are gone I'd just.......*gasp* trade down. Nothing wrong with trading down if you are in a good spot to get a player.

Trading out of the top 10 isn't as bad as 2009. Chances are you'd get some good deals there, and you can keep from having to pay a guy big money. I really don't think that they should force themselves to like a DE just to get a guy high. Now if they fell in love with someone and thought he was worth it, then that's cool. Other than that I'm fine with trading down and getting more picks. Having two second rounders would really help because linemen that were fringe first rounders usually fall there. They can get a guy like Gurode or Blaylock in the second, and get a pretty decent DE that slipped there too.
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Old 11-16-2010, 09:11 PM    (permalink
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I don't think that taking a DE high would be a necessity unless there is just an absolute stud there. To be honest I'd be fine with moving Ratliff out there and having Bowen start if he keeps impressing with everyone else hurt. I want a guy who can cause some havoc there besides what they have, but I think that there are other positions that need some attention with a high pick. Namely OL and secondary. If Peterson and Amukamara are gone I'd just.......*gasp* trade down. Nothing wrong with trading down if you are in a good spot to get a player.

Trading out of the top 10 isn't as bad as 2009. Chances are you'd get some good deals there, and you can keep from having to pay a guy big money. I really don't think that they should force themselves to like a DE just to get a guy high. Now if they fell in love with someone and thought he was worth it, then that's cool. Other than that I'm fine with trading down and getting more picks. Having two second rounders would really help because linemen that were fringe first rounders usually fall there. They can get a guy like Gurode or Blaylock in the second, and get a pretty decent DE that slipped there too.
Yeah, if we can pick up a future 1st in 2012 and get an additional 2nd in 2011, then I'm all over that. Hopefully a good QB gets to us and a desperate team moves up for him. The higher we are picking, the better for us. I'd way rather have a 2-3 win season than a 5-6 win season. 5-6 wins does absolutely nothing. Just damage to our rebuilding process.
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Old 11-16-2010, 11:30 PM    (permalink
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A future first would be pretty damn awesome. Maybe they could lull someone in like the Patriots do every year. Of course, Jerry tried that with some teams that were slam dunks to have early first rounders. Too bad Buffalo and Cleveland decided not to suck those years like they usually do. :(
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Old 11-17-2010, 12:15 AM    (permalink
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Alright D-Unit, this post is directed at you. I'm going to play out possible scenerio's, then I want your thoughts on what you would do.. (Anyone else can share their thoughts as well, please)

1. We win another 3+ games, have around the 7th to 10th pick, and lose out on Peterson and Prince. What do you do?

2. We completely ball out and maximize our talent, winning 6 of the next 7, or win out, and we are around pick 15. The offensive line has protcted kitna, Jerry and the FO make a ******** decision, and all but leonard davis is kept.. What do you do?

3. We only win another game or two, but Peterson is off the board because detroit picks ahead of us, and I don't know if prince is worth #4 or #5 overall.. What do you do?

Disclaimer: We have signed a starter quality offensive lineman (mankins, etc.) in FA, and Garrett is our real head coach.
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Old 11-17-2010, 02:16 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by CDCB14 View Post
Alright D-Unit, this post is directed at you. I'm going to play out possible scenerio's, then I want your thoughts on what you would do.. (Anyone else can share their thoughts as well, please)

1. We win another 3+ games, have around the 7th to 10th pick, and lose out on Peterson and Prince. What do you do?

2. We completely ball out and maximize our talent, winning 6 of the next 7, or win out, and we are around pick 15. The offensive line has protcted kitna, Jerry and the FO make a ******** decision, and all but leonard davis is kept.. What do you do?

3. We only win another game or two, but Peterson is off the board because detroit picks ahead of us, and I don't know if prince is worth #4 or #5 overall.. What do you do?

Disclaimer: We have signed a starter quality offensive lineman (mankins, etc.) in FA, and Garrett is our real head coach.
1. We look for a trade down. If we are forced to make the pick between 7-10, then I'm looking at:

Marcel Dareus or Brandon Harris

You might say... Oh but I thought you don't want to draft a DE that high. Yeah, well the way I look at it is that Dareus has a lot of versatility. 3-4 DE is one option, but I would try him at NT first. I don't know why more people aren't talking about him as a NT... he has the natural body type for it. Plus, if we move to the 4-3, he would be an easy fit there as well, and I strongly believe in drafting 4-3 DTs that high in the draft if worthy value is found.



As for Harris, he's no slouch. He's a ballhawk with smooth hips (I know thule likes that very non-scoutish talk. lol.). No but really, I'm a big fan and the dude is a sure tackler who also excels in run support. If we're looking at CBs like Peterson and Amakumara, then I don't know why we wouldn't look at Harris.

2. No matter who is kept on the OL, we can't change our priorities about rehauling the talent level there. It must be addressed with full force via FA/trade/draft/whatever/whereever. If we're picking at 15, I'm looking at Riley Reiff, Tyron Smith, Anthony Castonzo, Derrick Sherrod...maybe even Marcus Cannon.

3. Same answer as #1. Take Dareus with the intent on trying to plug him in at NT. If it doesn't work, I'm fine with him at DE.
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Old 11-17-2010, 02:42 PM    (permalink
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I really like Cannon. I think we could get him in the 2nd, possibly 3rd. I think he may rise to the 2nd as more people get a look at him. He could start immediately at guard and then move out and take Columbo's spot in 2012. I wouldn't even mind us taking someone like Wisnewski and moving Geroude to guard for the next year or two.

I also agree that moving down may be the best route. We really could use multiple 2nd's and 3rd's. We may need to draft as many as 3 OL.
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Old 11-17-2010, 02:50 PM    (permalink
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I really like Cannon. I think we could get him in the 2nd, possibly 3rd. I think he may rise to the 2nd as more people get a look at him. He could start immediately at guard and then move out and take Columbo's spot in 2012. I wouldn't even mind us taking someone like Wisnewski and moving Geroude to guard for the next year or two.

I also agree that moving down may be the best route. We really could use multiple 2nd's and 3rd's. We may need to draft as many as 3 OL.
Not sure about the 3rd. The reason you really like is the same reason a lot of people like him. He's looking like the Top OG in the draft.
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Old 11-17-2010, 02:52 PM    (permalink
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Not sure about the 3rd. The reason you really like is the same reason a lot of people like him. He's looking like the Top OG in the draft.
Yeah, most think of him as a guard, but I think he would be a great RT.
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Old 11-17-2010, 02:54 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, most think of him as a guard, but I think he would be a great RT.
Yep, he could be that too. It's even more reason to doubt that he'll be there in the 3rd. A lot of people have him solidly in the 1st.
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