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Old 01-18-2007, 12:05 PM    (permalink
EHobbs27
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Don't be. Until Samardzija comes out and says that he is fully committed to football, he should be falling that far. I still don't understand why he is going in the first round.
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Old 01-18-2007, 04:18 PM    (permalink
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Hello Patriot fans ...

Congrats on having a team that is still in the playoffs (maybe the Titans will make it that far next year :) Anyway, I was thinking about the Titans draft and how we might like to trade down a little bit. I think the ideal suitor for us would be the Patriots because we could use guys like Patrick Willis and Robert Meachem, but #19 is a little too high for both of them, but they'll both likely be gone by the time our second round pick comes around. If we picked at, say, #24 and #28, then we would not have that problem.

As many of you know, NFL pundits often refer to the "Draft Pick Value Chart" in order to facilitate trades. I have used this chart to come up with a perfectly even trade according to the chart in which both teams would give up and receive exactly 1448 points. Here it is:

Patriots receive: Titans #1, #2, #3, #7
Titans receive: Patriots #1, #1, #4

On paper, the trade is perfectly even. I am confident that the Titans would like to pull this trade because of our team needs and who would be projected to fall to the late first round. My only question is how the Patriots would feel about the trade. Perhaps you guys would like to move up to grab Dwayne Jarrett at #19 to compliment Chad Jackson, the vertical threat. Maybe a corner of whom the Patriots are fond falls to #19 and you guys want to make a move. I don't know. That's why I'm trying to get a feel if it might be a good move for you.

Thanks in advance for your helpful input!
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Old 01-18-2007, 04:43 PM    (permalink
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I am kinda back and forth with that one. I would love if we got another 2nd and 3rd and moved up 5 spots to 19. If a guy like Darrelle Revis or Reggie Nelson fell to 19 then I think we should definately do it.
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Old 01-18-2007, 06:03 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by TitanAddict
Hello Patriot fans ...

Congrats on having a team that is still in the playoffs (maybe the Titans will make it that far next year :) Anyway, I was thinking about the Titans draft and how we might like to trade down a little bit. I think the ideal suitor for us would be the Patriots because we could use guys like Patrick Willis and Robert Meachem, but #19 is a little too high for both of them, but they'll both likely be gone by the time our second round pick comes around. If we picked at, say, #24 and #28, then we would not have that problem.

As many of you know, NFL pundits often refer to the "Draft Pick Value Chart" in order to facilitate trades. I have used this chart to come up with a perfectly even trade according to the chart in which both teams would give up and receive exactly 1448 points. Here it is:

Patriots receive: Titans #1, #2, #3, #7
Titans receive: Patriots #1, #1, #4

On paper, the trade is perfectly even. I am confident that the Titans would like to pull this trade because of our team needs and who would be projected to fall to the late first round. My only question is how the Patriots would feel about the trade. Perhaps you guys would like to move up to grab Dwayne Jarrett at #19 to compliment Chad Jackson, the vertical threat. Maybe a corner of whom the Patriots are fond falls to #19 and you guys want to make a move. I don't know. That's why I'm trying to get a feel if it might be a good move for you.

Thanks in advance for your helpful input!
I'm not sure the Patriots would make that trade. It's interesting, and I put a lot of thought into it, but we are already loaded on picks. We would have a 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 6, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, and then whatever we get in compensation (probably two fifths or something.) I don't think New England really needs any more picks right now. However, that trade is still pretty intriguing because it would allow us a shot at Ted Ginn Jr., Dwayne Jarrett, Levi Brown, and Darrelle Revis. I'll put some more thought into it.
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Old 01-18-2007, 07:04 PM    (permalink
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Thanks for your input so far. Another hurdle in prognosticating trades is the combine. After the combine, Meachem might be considered a top 20 pick should he run a 4.35 or something like that. It really is difficult to forecast the correct move until draft day. Look at what Denver did last year when Cutler fell to #13 or whatever. Maybe we have a guy like Brady Quinn who has a Matt Leinart type free fall. Hopefully, someone the Patriots need falls to #19 and we can pull the trigger on the trade.

On another note, are there any roomers in New England about Scott Pioli bolting to take a GM job somewhere? Obviously, I would think the Titans should be interested since Reese "resigned." Right now we're looking at a couple of guys from the Jaguars' front office as well as Randy Mueller. I know that Nashville is a smaller market than Boston and we haven't had the continued success as the Patriots over the last several years, but I would think Pioli would seriously consider taking the Titans' GM position while we have young superstars in the making such as Vince Young, Pacman Jones, and Lendale White as well as a top coach in Jeff Fisher. The only problem might be Fisher wanting significant control over personnel and Pioli might be wanting "absolute power" in personnel decisions, too. Maybe Nashville isn't big enough for the both of them.

Thanks again for the input so far. I really appreciate the feedback from informed fans.
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Old 01-18-2007, 08:59 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by tylaw24
Scott has us taking Marcus McCauley with 1a, Dwayne Bowe with 1b, and David Harris in the second. I like the first two picks, but i've never seen David Harris play. I think that the pats are going to take a Safety early in this draft and Scott hasn't addressed the position with any of our first three picks. There is a bit of a drop off in quality safeties after the second round and there is nothing wrong with taking one in the first. They are usually cheaper than corners anyway. Rodney may not be back next season, and there has to be someone to challenge Artrell Hawkins for the starting spot.

Hawk is our FS, and the future of SS is in my boy James Sanders!!!

If Wilson cannot rebound then FS would be our #1 priority...thats if Asante resigns

If we cannot get Asante expect our secondary to have one of the worst PYPG in the league next year
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Old 01-19-2007, 01:09 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by TitanAddict
Thanks for your input so far. Another hurdle in prognosticating trades is the combine. After the combine, Meachem might be considered a top 20 pick should he run a 4.35 or something like that. It really is difficult to forecast the correct move until draft day. Look at what Denver did last year when Cutler fell to #13 or whatever. Maybe we have a guy like Brady Quinn who has a Matt Leinart type free fall. Hopefully, someone the Patriots need falls to #19 and we can pull the trigger on the trade.

On another note, are there any roomers in New England about Scott Pioli bolting to take a GM job somewhere? Obviously, I would think the Titans should be interested since Reese "resigned." Right now we're looking at a couple of guys from the Jaguars' front office as well as Randy Mueller. I know that Nashville is a smaller market than Boston and we haven't had the continued success as the Patriots over the last several years, but I would think Pioli would seriously consider taking the Titans' GM position while we have young superstars in the making such as Vince Young, Pacman Jones, and Lendale White as well as a top coach in Jeff Fisher. The only problem might be Fisher wanting significant control over personnel and Pioli might be wanting "absolute power" in personnel decisions, too. Maybe Nashville isn't big enough for the both of them.

Thanks again for the input so far. I really appreciate the feedback from informed fans.
You're right about the trade value not being able to predict until after the combine at the earliest. New England should make that deal if they have a shot at getting a great wideout, corner, or linebacker, but people's draft stocks are a little too fluid right now. Pioli is going to stay with New England. He was a lifelong Giants fan and didn't even accept their interview, so I don't think he'd leave New England for Tennessee.
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Old 01-20-2007, 08:31 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RavenOfProphecy
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitanAddict
Hello Patriot fans ...

Congrats on having a team that is still in the playoffs (maybe the Titans will make it that far next year :) Anyway, I was thinking about the Titans draft and how we might like to trade down a little bit. I think the ideal suitor for us would be the Patriots because we could use guys like Patrick Willis and Robert Meachem, but #19 is a little too high for both of them, but they'll both likely be gone by the time our second round pick comes around. If we picked at, say, #24 and #28, then we would not have that problem.

As many of you know, NFL pundits often refer to the "Draft Pick Value Chart" in order to facilitate trades. I have used this chart to come up with a perfectly even trade according to the chart in which both teams would give up and receive exactly 1448 points. Here it is:

Patriots receive: Titans #1, #2, #3, #7
Titans receive: Patriots #1, #1, #4

On paper, the trade is perfectly even. I am confident that the Titans would like to pull this trade because of our team needs and who would be projected to fall to the late first round. My only question is how the Patriots would feel about the trade. Perhaps you guys would like to move up to grab Dwayne Jarrett at #19 to compliment Chad Jackson, the vertical threat. Maybe a corner of whom the Patriots are fond falls to #19 and you guys want to make a move. I don't know. That's why I'm trying to get a feel if it might be a good move for you.

Thanks in advance for your helpful input!
I'm not sure the Patriots would make that trade. It's interesting, and I put a lot of thought into it, but we are already loaded on picks. We would have a 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 6, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, and then whatever we get in compensation (probably two fifths or something.) I don't think New England really needs any more picks right now. However, that trade is still pretty intriguing because it would allow us a shot at Ted Ginn Jr., Dwayne Jarrett, Levi Brown, and Darrelle Revis. I'll put some more thought into it.
Yeah, New england is very stacked with draft picks and would most likely trade them away to move up a only few spots in the 1st. They do value their later round picks though and could load up on 2nd rounders and get some really great players, that for whatever reason fall out of the first. A good example of this is Chad Jackson, who was excellent value at the top of the second round last year.
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Old 01-20-2007, 04:17 PM    (permalink
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I don't think we will have to move up to 19 to get one of the big time prospects. I believe with all of the early entries and options in this draft, one of the elite safety prospects (Landry, Nelson, Griffin) will fall into our laps at the #24 pick. I also think that a lot of LBs, CBs, WRs and OL will be available at #24, and wherever our final pick ends up being.

On another note, as you know Smardzija isn't coming out so we wont take him. I dont really like him anyway so its kind of a good thing imo.
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Old 01-20-2007, 04:28 PM    (permalink
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Sidney Rice is the guy. I really hope we can get him. I think he might fall.

What about compensation picks? We should get something for Vinitiari, McGinnest, Givens and Ashworth given the amount of money they all got. How high do you think they will be and how is that based?
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Old 01-20-2007, 04:32 PM    (permalink
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Sidney Rice is the guy. I really hope we can get him. I think he might fall.

What about compensation picks? We should get something for Vinitiari, McGinnest, Givens and Ashworth given the amount of money they all got. How high do you think they will be and how is that based?
i dont like sidney i would rather have bowe or mechum then rice
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Old 01-20-2007, 09:30 PM    (permalink
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Were not drafting another receiver in the top 2 this year.....but i do have my fears that Chad Jackson will turn into Bethel Johnson
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Old 01-20-2007, 09:56 PM    (permalink
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Oh, I believe we absolutely HAVE TO take a WR with one of the first three picks, if not THE first pick. Our luck with journeyman WR's WILL run out. We need a playmaker, and I am sure you're not the only one having flashbacks to Bethel Johnson with Chad Jackson.

There are so many amazing WR's in this draft, it would be foolish to not take one early when it is a clear need.
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Old 01-20-2007, 10:42 PM    (permalink
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While I agree to an extent, I feel Brady makes everyone WR around him better. He doesn't need and never has had a big star WR and he still is a Pro-Bowler. I would rather see us give Chad Jackson another year, pick up a guy like Kevin Curtis in FA, and draft a guy like Johnnie Lee Higgins in round 2. I would love to see us add 2 star defensive players in round one. Chad Jackson showed signs of being a good WR. He had 3 TD's and a couple of nice plays in only about 5 games this year. I think over a full course of the year, he could easily have 7 or 8 TDs and 750 yards.
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Old 01-20-2007, 11:26 PM    (permalink
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This may sound stupid but I am a fan of Miamis Wes Welker, and he could be a nice fit into this offense (too bads he's restricted)
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Old 01-21-2007, 12:13 AM    (permalink
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You guys ready for your beat down? Manning is bound to break away with a big game. He is due.
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Old 01-21-2007, 12:21 AM    (permalink
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This is no place for trash talk, stick to the Colts threads
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Old 01-21-2007, 12:24 AM    (permalink
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You guys ready for your beat down? Manning is bound to break away with a big game. He is due.
Heard this from a Colts fan in the playoffs before.
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Old 01-21-2007, 02:35 AM    (permalink
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This thread never seems to stay on topic
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Old 01-21-2007, 03:35 AM    (permalink
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This may sound stupid but I am a fan of Miamis Wes Welker, and he could be a nice fit into this offense (too bads he's restricted)
Welker is very multi-talented and would definitely be a great benefit to this offence. It doesn't sound stupid at all, but it is unfortunate that he is restricted, and Miami would match any offer given for him.
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Old 01-21-2007, 10:39 AM    (permalink
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I also feel Kevin Curtis could fit in our offense very well.

Colts fan trying to talk smack :roll:
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Old 01-21-2007, 01:43 PM    (permalink
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Oh, I believe we absolutely HAVE TO take a WR with one of the first three picks, if not THE first pick. Our luck with journeyman WR's WILL run out. We need a playmaker, and I am sure you're not the only one having flashbacks to Bethel Johnson with Chad Jackson.

There are so many amazing WR's in this draft, it would be foolish to not take one early when it is a clear need.
I don't think we necessarily need a wide receiver in the draft before the late second day. Sure, there are good wide receivers in the draft. A LOT of good wide receivers in the draft. I mean, there are at least seven guys who could realistically go in the first round (Calvin Johnson, Ted Ginn Jr., Dwayne Jarrett, Sidney Rice, Robert Meachem, Dwayne Bowe) and a handful of second round talents (Jason Hill, Craig Davis, Anthony Gonzalez, Chansi Stuckey, Paul Williams, Johhnie Lee Higgins) that could try and work their way into the first.

I'm sure there'll be at least one or two of the seven wide receivers left when we're picking. There are somewhere between 15-20 wide receivers that have first day talent, but to tell the truth, like I said before, we don't really need one of them for our offense to go. Someone like a David Ball, or a Steve Breaston or Ryan Moore would be fine, if you ask me. Originally, I thought drafting a return man might be a great idea considering Faulk and Brown are aging (Brown will probably retire), but now I'm not even sure we need a return man early. I think Chad Jackson has showed some good elusiveness and burst and could return for us to give him some purpose. We have some other needs that I think are bigger, mainly left tackle, inside linebacker, and cornerback, that I would address early, and since Belichick is known for drafting the best player available regardless of position (Watson with Graham/Fauria, Wilfork with Washington, etc.), wide receiver could slide a little bit.

Don't forget that highly-drafted wide receivers have about a 50-50 shot at being a bust. Ever since the great class of 1996, there haven't been much more good wideouts drafted in the first than bad ones, if the number of good ones is even higher (that's debatable.) I'll show you what I mean:

1997: Ike Hilliard (#7), Yatil Green (#15), Reidel Anthony (#16), Rae Carruth (#27)

1998: Kevin Dyson (#16), Randy Moss (#21), Marcus Nash (#30)

1999: Torry Holt (#6), David Boston (#8), Troy Edwards (#13)

2000: Peter Warrick (#4), Plaxico Burress (#8), Travis Taylor (#10), Sylvester Morris (#21), R. Jay Soward (#29)

2001: David Terrell (#8), Koren Robinson (#9), Rod Gardner (#15), Santana Moss (#16), Freddie Mitchell (#25), Reggie Wayne (#30)

2002: Donte Stallworth (#13), Ashley Lelie (#19), Javon Walker (#20)

2003: Charles Rogers (#2), Andre Johnson (#3), Bryant Johnson (#17)

2004: Larry Fitzgerald (#3), Roy Williams (#7), Reggie Williams (#9), Lee Evans (#13), Michael Clayton (#15), Michael Jenkins (#29), Rashaun Woods (#31)

2005: Braylon Edwards (#3), Troy Williamson (#7), Mike Williams (#10), Matt Jones (#21), Mark Clayton (#22)

2006: Santonio Holmes (#25)
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Old 01-21-2007, 02:14 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indyfan1985
You guys ready for your beat down? Manning is bound to break away with a big game. He is due.
He who laughs last, laughs loudest my friend. So be careful what you say.

I personally think you're going to lose this game 27-17. The Pats are a more balanced team and they know how to win in big games.
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Despite looking better against an underachieving Eagles team, I still think the Bears are one of the worst teams in the NFL. I smell a blowout victory by the Lions this week and a division sweep.
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Old 01-21-2007, 02:14 PM    (permalink
Jay
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Realistically, it is almost irrelevent to talk about the draft because the Pats are impossible to read. So it's going to come down to us talking about guys we like and positions we want. I wouldn't put it past them to draft a TE, T and DE with the first three picks if they feel those are the best players available when their turn comes. Dan Graham and Ben Watson were drafted in the first like back to back years.

But we're tempting fate here. Chad Jackson has not proven anything this year other than that he's not smart enough to learn the playbook and that all he knows how to do is run in a straight line really fast. I like Jabar Gaffney and Reche Caldwell, but Tom Brady deserves a Marvin Harrison or a Reggie Wayne of his own. No, we haven't needed that so far, but it's going to catch up eventually.

There are plenty of solid FA LB's available. To me, drafting one should be enough. So if they grab a DB, and LB and a WR in the first two rounds, I think it is perfect. But as I have consistantly said all year and many of you have on and off agreed with me on, WR is #1. Hell, I'd love to walk out of the draft with Sidney Rice AND Robert Meachem/Dwayne Bowe in round one. But out of the guys we have a legit shot at, Rice is my favorite.

Also, if the Pats have no interest in signing Asante Samuel for the money he is looking for, they'd be well served to franchise him and trade his rights for a first or a second. I'd almost like to see them do that anyway and sign Nate Clements. Take from the Bills and fill Samuel's spot with a decent/comprable vet who may be a little cheaper.
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Old 01-21-2007, 03:45 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay
Realistically, it is almost irrelevent to talk about the draft because the Pats are impossible to read. So it's going to come down to us talking about guys we like and positions we want. I wouldn't put it past them to draft a TE, T and DE with the first three picks if they feel those are the best players available when their turn comes. Dan Graham and Ben Watson were drafted in the first like back to back years.

But we're tempting fate here. Chad Jackson has not proven anything this year other than that he's not smart enough to learn the playbook and that all he knows how to do is run in a straight line really fast. I like Jabar Gaffney and Reche Caldwell, but Tom Brady deserves a Marvin Harrison or a Reggie Wayne of his own. No, we haven't needed that so far, but it's going to catch up eventually.

There are plenty of solid FA LB's available. To me, drafting one should be enough. So if they grab a DB, and LB and a WR in the first two rounds, I think it is perfect. But as I have consistantly said all year and many of you have on and off agreed with me on, WR is #1. Hell, I'd love to walk out of the draft with Sidney Rice AND Robert Meachem/Dwayne Bowe in round one. But out of the guys we have a legit shot at, Rice is my favorite.

Also, if the Pats have no interest in signing Asante Samuel for the money he is looking for, they'd be well served to franchise him and trade his rights for a first or a second. I'd almost like to see them do that anyway and sign Nate Clements. Take from the Bills and fill Samuel's spot with a decent/comprable vet who may be a little cheaper.
I agree when you say Brady deserves a Marvin Harrison or a Reggie Wayne to throw to, but he certainly hasn't needed it. If we get the opporitunity to select a top tier receiver in this draft, we may pull the trigger. I could realistically see us taking Jarret, Rice, Bowe, Meachum, Ginn or maybe even Craig Davis. Craig Davis round 2 is ideal for me, preceeded by DB and LB round 1. Again, though, I would love to see Jarret, Rice, Bowe, Meachum or Ginn fall into our laps, and 2-4 of them probably will be there at #24 and 1-3 will be availabe at our final 1st round pick.

Almost game time, and I realized something. This game could justify Peyton Mannings career and he knows it. Hopefully we come up big and win, but it ahould be tough.
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