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Old 07-27-2011, 04:36 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Jvig43 View Post
We are clearly pats fans saying that the Jets getting Aso wont be that bad for us or that they'll only be a little better. They'll be a LOT better. Our wrs couldn't get open at all in January against them last year, what are we expecting them to do if they sign Aso? Sorry but if they end up getting Aso on top of signing holmes long term I for one will be very scared of that team.
See I disagree. Holmes coming back helps them but Im not scared of Shonne Greene running the ball. Their #2 WR is Cotchery who is the definition of average and who's after that? Where's the depth if someone gets hurt or Holmes gets suspended?

Defensively sure it will be like Rex Ryan's wet dream dialling up all the exotic blitz schemes with the two guys on the back end covering one on one. But losing Shaun Ellis means they lose their best pass rusher. Losing Kris Jenkins means they lose their best run stuffer. Once again, where's the depth? Wilkerson will be forced to start more than likely.

Not one Jet scares me as a pass rusher. If the interior of the Patriots line has a better game in January we win. Despite no one getting open all game we were still in the game. If Crumpler catches the TD that he dropped in the 1st how does the game go?

We should also be a hell of a lot better running the ball this year.
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Old 07-27-2011, 04:49 PM    (permalink
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I think even with Asomugha we're still about on the same talent level with the Jets. We're better at defensive line, at the skill positions, and at QB. Overall I think our secondary is pretty much on par and definitely has the potential to be as good as that Jets secondary which actually has some pretty terrible safety depth.

Still I can't say I'm not disappointed. I was expecting the Jets to be in salary cap jail this season, and not only did they completely avoid it, but they could get a HOF in his prime. Not to mention that Tannenbaum pulled off some devil magic by making Holmes's cap number $2.45 million. Now instead of getting worse they could realistically retain most of their free agents as well as add Asomugha.
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Old 07-27-2011, 05:34 PM    (permalink
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Defensively sure it will be like Rex Ryan's wet dream dialling up all the exotic blitz schemes with the two guys on the back end covering one on one. But losing Shaun Ellis means they lose their best pass rusher. Losing Kris Jenkins means they lose their best run stuffer. Once again, where's the depth? Wilkerson will be forced to start more than likely.
How are they "losing their best run stuffer" Kris Jenkins if he didn't play at all last year. They still finished third against the run without him.

I wouldn't call Shaun Ellis their best pass rusher either. Good player, but he turned real average last season. That's not something they'll be losing sleep over with talent coming in on the defensive line from the draft.

Aso makes them a MUCH better team, like it or not. They lack a big time stud front seven player(they've got tons who fit the system quite well though), but they really don't need one if they're free to rush however many they want.
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Old 07-27-2011, 05:57 PM    (permalink
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How are they "losing their best run stuffer" Kris Jenkins if he didn't play at all last year. They still finished third against the run without him.

I wouldn't call Shaun Ellis their best pass rusher either. Good player, but he turned real average last season. That's not something they'll be losing sleep over with talent coming in on the defensive line from the draft.

Aso makes them a MUCH better team, like it or not. They lack a big time stud front seven player(they've got tons who fit the system quite well though), but they really don't need one if they're free to rush however many they want.
Shaun Ellis absolutely killed Dan Koppen/Dan Connolly in the playoffs.

In regards to their front 7 the have 2 better than average ILBs and the rest is all schemed around average role players. Their safeties are also very average and have no depth. If a team handles the blitzes like the Pats did in week 13 then they can be dominated.

Their defensive line is currently two career backups in Devito and Pouha who played very well in relief last year, Muh Wilkerson and Kenrick Ellis-two unproven rookies and a few journey men. Not a lot to right home about of the rookies dont pan out or they get hit by injuries.
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Old 07-27-2011, 06:26 PM    (permalink
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Secondary isn't just corners. The Pats have a really nice group of safeties.

The main thing with that game was the Pats came out flat and didn't get into the game until the 4th quarter. The only player who was playing with any kind of fire was Julian Edelman.
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Old 07-27-2011, 06:27 PM    (permalink
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Shaun Ellis absolutely killed Dan Koppen/Dan Connolly in the playoffs.
That's Koppen and Connolly's problem, not a nod to Shaun Ellis. They did a very good job on him in the first few meetings. That was a total breakdown.

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In regards to their front 7 the have 2 better than average ILBs and the rest is all schemed around average role players. Their safeties are also very average and have no depth. If a team handles the blitzes like the Pats did in week 13 then they can be dominated.
That's fine. You can win BIG with players like that and some depth issues provided everything is cohesive within the scheme. They're vulnerable to quick throws when they rush, but I don't know how anyone could say that's all they're good at when they successfully clogged the middle of the field in the first game and the playoff game. Provided they work something out with Aso, they were doing that with drastically inferior coverage personal. It becomes that much harder to pass on them when you add the best corner in the league to their roster.

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Their defensive line is currently two career backups in Devito and Pouha who played very well in relief last year, Muh Wilkerson and Kenrick Ellis-two unproven rookies and a few journey men. Not a lot to right home about of the rookies dont pan out or they get hit by injuries.
Devito and Pouha didn't play relief last year, they started for the majority of the year and played extremely well. Might not be big names, but the kind of sort of guided them to being on of the top three teams versus the rush last year along with all those average players at linebacker. Proof is sort of in the pudding there. DE is a concern, but they've proven they can win with depth players and they're adding big talent to the mix with Wilkerson and Ellis. As much as I hate him, I have no doubt Rex Ryan will be able to put those guys in position to make impact plays and get the most out of them. Might be growing pains, but we're a good proof of concept that you can get impact from young talent early while they're still learning the ins and outs of the NFL, provided you approach it right.


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Secondary isn't just corners. The Pats have a really nice group of safeties.

The main thing with that game was the Pats came out flat and didn't get into the game until the 4th quarter. The only player who was playing with any kind of fire was Julian Edelman.
That has more to do with why we lost than anything else, but we also got flat out outcoached and outplayed. I don't see anything we added on offense through the draft and free agency so far that makes a major difference in the result of last years game X's and O's wise. If we added a bigger target who can make plays on coverage, that would be huge. Problem is, Aso completely takes that away.

To clarify; I don't think it's impossible to beat the Jets by any means. They have some vulnerabilities on defense, even with Aso. But to suggest that the overall talent level doesn't go up through the roof because they're letting a few guys who didn't play and a few more who were league average go is completely asinine. They're an extremely well coached and talented group. We're going to need to play our absolute best to have a 50/50 shot against them(same goes for them against us, though). The past two games we've played against them are a good indication of that both ways. They came out dogging it in the last regular season game and we fell asleep in the playoffs(as well as gameplanning completely wrong).
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Old 07-27-2011, 07:31 PM    (permalink
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Sammy Morris was brought back for special teams and I must say I'm pretty shocked about that. Sidney Rice to Seattle, he would've been a good fit. Come on Chad Johnson.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:22 PM    (permalink
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Sammy Morris was brought back for special teams and I must say I'm pretty shocked about that. Sidney Rice to Seattle, he would've been a good fit. Come on Chad Johnson.
I'm not sure we're completely married to having him on the roster all year. He'll likely have to fight for a spot in camp/pre-season. Kettani is a guy who will be challenging for that big back role and could have special teams value as well. It is curious we brought him in though. Hopefully doesn't have an effect on Faulk, even though he might be out of a job here :(((

Sidney Rice was always a pipe dream, 5 years at 41M affirms that, but it does sort of suck. In terms of what we need and what he brings to the table, he would have made a lot of sense here.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:34 PM    (permalink
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Maybe Bill Belichick really is a genius.

The Jets sign Nnamdi to a megadeal. Bad for the Patriots right?

Except one thing... small detail... we drafted 2 running backs, have 2 great TEs, have a strong OL, and are built on slot receivers and route runners. . .

So I hope for the Jets that Nnamdi can play NT.

edit: we lost to the jets because our OLBs are the worst in the NFL. By far.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:36 PM    (permalink
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I really wish we had a guy on our roster who could tackle Mark Sanchez, that's for damn sure. He must have slipped away from at least 7+ sacks against us last year on plays better linebackers make.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:46 PM    (permalink
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It may not be a perfect situation if the Jets get Nnamdi, but at least they're sacrificing a lot of depth if they do. Just looking at their free agent list shows that a quick injury bug could do huge damage to that team. I mean these guys aren't studs by any means, but you can't just replace them with anyone.

Drew Coleman
Shaun Ellis
Brodney Pool
Eric Smith
Wayne Hunter
Jason Taylor
Braylon Edwards
Tony Richardson
Brad Smith
Eric Smith
Trevor Price
James Ihedigbo

That's not a group of stars, but it's hard to replace those guys with random street free agents. They definitely can't hold a candle to the Pats in terms of depth.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:52 PM    (permalink
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That's very true. Braylon Edwards is a guy they'll ultimately be better without despite the fact he can play like a true #1 NFL receiver on any given down. They've got in house replacements lined up for a few of those guys already in Shaun Ellis, Tony Richardson, and Trevor Pryce. Some of them won't be hard to replace. But there will be some roster turnover. Could hurt some in the short term with the extended labor situation and time to work guys in to the system.
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Old 07-28-2011, 05:23 AM    (permalink
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You guys got Fat Albert...
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Old 07-28-2011, 05:38 AM    (permalink
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Well, boom or bust I guess. lol.
for a 2013 5th i don't care too much.

We'll see how it works out.
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Old 07-28-2011, 05:46 AM    (permalink
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I love this I wanted to do it last year
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Old 07-28-2011, 06:02 AM    (permalink
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Again another low risk, high reward move. I like it, I wont expect much until I see Haynesworth wants to actually play but it could really help our defense if he actually shows up to games.
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Old 07-28-2011, 06:19 AM    (permalink
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Wait, what?! haha... we got Haynesworth?
sub package super UT sack specialist?! 4 years ago.
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Old 07-28-2011, 06:24 AM    (permalink
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Wait, what?! haha... we got Haynesworth?
sub package super UT sack specialist?! 4 years ago.
I can see us moving more towards a 4-3. We've been transitioning for a couple years now.
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Old 07-28-2011, 07:33 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BradysKnee View Post
I can see us moving more towards a 4-3. We've been transitioning for a couple years now.
I'm don't really know how to feel on this one. Albert Haynesworth has intriguing talent, and pretty much if he had the right mindset is Haloti Ngata with more pass rushing ability. If he decided to all of a sudden get it, that would do wonders to alleviate our current 3rd down woes. However, I'm terrified of having a malcontent like this in the locker room. We've had Dillon and Moss before, but at least those guys were wired as competitors. Their problems were that their former teams weren't winning. Haynesworth simply cares about himself over the good of his team. Think of him as the Anti-Troy Brown.

I really wonder how the young defense will handle having a personality like his around. Guys like Mayo, Chung, and McCourty have their heads on straight, but their should be a clause in Haynesworth's contract that terminates his contract if he even talks to a guy like Meriweather or Spikes. I do think he'll like playing for Pepper Johnson though.

I'm not really sure how a heavy 4-3 would look. I'm guessing it would be Cunningham-Wilfork-Haynesworth/Stroud-Warren/Moore with the LB's Guyton-Mayo-Spikes. If the Pats were to be moving to a heavy 4-3 I'd be intrigued by Ray Edwards at that RDE spot, but I think the money is too much. If they had Edwards though they could run a base 3-4 set and a base 4-3 set with perfect personel.

Regardless a top 10 defense from last year is adding Bodden, Warren, and now Haynesworth. It's a lot to get excited about.
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Old 07-28-2011, 07:56 AM    (permalink
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Albert won't mind playing DE. Especially when he sees how the Pats' DEs have been able to compile stats over the years.
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Old 07-28-2011, 08:28 AM    (permalink
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I think our D has had more 43 looks recently but I don't think we're abandoning the odd front though.
I think injuries and lack of depth forced us into the 43 looks

As for Haynesworth, I remember reading he didn't mind the 34... he just didn't want to play NT.
He obviously won't be forced to play that here...
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Old 07-28-2011, 09:28 AM    (permalink
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Per FOX Sports' Adam Caplan, Albert Haynesworth forfeited his guaranteed 2011 salary ($5.4 million) by skipping 2010 minicamps with the Redskins.
Thus, the Pats can release Haynesworth quickly if he becomes a problem and be on the hook for zero monetary commitment. It's still not a "no-risk" deal; New England did surrender a future fifth-round pick while gambling Haynesworth will be a good soldier in their 3-4 defense, something he refused to be under Mike Shanahan. The Patriots play 50 percent nickel alignments, and we suspect that's where they're hoping Haynesworth helps the most. Jul 28, 8:41 AM
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He's an easy cut if he decides to continue his crybaby, no-heart, all-quit antics.

It will still be a very interesting contract situation to monitor, though. His contract is 6.5M / 8.5M / 10.5M / 11.5M for 2012 - 2015, respectively, and I can't see any scenario where the Pats actually absorb that deal. He's either "restructuring" (by which I mean taking a huge paycut) or he's a one-and-done.

Nalej is right - he didn't want to play NT, which was the source of his malcontent. Still, my money is on Fat Al being cut before the season begins. This guy has never displayed the heart required to be a stud football player. Unless it's a contract year, he doesn't show up.

Go ahead . . . just for fun . . . you know you want to go watch him laying on the ground vs. the Iggles.
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Old 07-28-2011, 09:30 AM    (permalink
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ugh @ poison pill.... looks more and more like a one and done max
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Old 07-28-2011, 09:35 AM    (permalink
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Yup. That part is probably worth posting. Same source.

2/27/2009: Signed a seven-year, $100 million contract. The deal contains $41 million guaranteed, including a $5 million signing bonus, all of his 2009-2011 base salaries, and a $21 million guaranteed option bonus in the second year. Haynesworth is due a $29 million "poison pill" in 2013, effectively making it a four-year, $48.2 million deal. Another $15 million is available through incentives. 2011: $5.4 million, 2012: $6.7 million (+ $500,000 workout bonus), 2013: $8.5 million (+ $20 million "discretionary signing bonus" + $500,000 roster bonus due 8/31 = Poison Pill Year), 2014: $10.3 million (+ $500,000 roster bonus due 8/31), 2015: $11.5 million (+ $500,000 roster bonus due 8/31), 2016: Free Agent


Maybe 2 years, as 6.7M in 2012 could be a nice deal for the "motivated" Fat Al. But my money still says he never plays a down here. Then again, you have to think the Pats FO has talked to the guy and feels like he's willing to put in at least some effort.
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Old 07-28-2011, 09:38 AM    (permalink
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Doesn't matter if its 1 or 2 years. I would guess we went after Cullen Jenkins and he was too expensive, so this is the fallback plan until the draft/FA next season.
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