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Old 10-30-2011, 07:15 PM    (permalink
BradysKnee
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Originally Posted by ElectricEye View Post
This was a horrible game. Horrible execution, horrible coaching, horrible game management...just horrible. Can't think of anything good to take away from today. Deflating in every single way.
Yep especially the coaching part.
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Old 10-30-2011, 07:16 PM    (permalink
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Pretty funny that people will think Pittsburgh is good because of this game... I think that's something entertaining (more annoying, actually) to take away from it!

Pittsburgh didn't do **** this game. I think that's the worst part. The Pats just let the Steelers practice.
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Old 10-30-2011, 07:28 PM    (permalink
BradysKnee
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Pretty funny that people will think Pittsburgh is good because of this game... I think that's something entertaining (more annoying, actually) to take away from it!

Pittsburgh didn't do **** this game. I think that's the worst part. The Pats just let the Steelers practice.
Yep I hope we play them in January.
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Old 10-30-2011, 07:29 PM    (permalink
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The Steelers scored all of what? 2 TDs? One of which was just a horrible play by Arrington and he still almost didn't get in.
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Old 10-30-2011, 07:30 PM    (permalink
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BB has to grow ome balls and drop this bend dont break **** and be aggressive.
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Old 10-30-2011, 07:45 PM    (permalink
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BB has to grow ome balls and drop this bend dont break **** and be aggressive.
To be fair, this week was really rough on the secondary. To be doubly fair, that's possibly Belichick's fault too (releasing Bodden). But we don't know what the specifics of the Bodden thing were, so it's impossible for us to really criticize the move. I don't want to sound like I'm giving them a pass, but they were relying heavily on two defensive backs who weren't acclimated to the defense.
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Old 10-30-2011, 09:03 PM    (permalink
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What the hell was up with the offensive game plan today? Barely use BJGE, Woodcock and Ridley at all and play Faulk non stop? Barely run the ball against the leagues top pass defense?
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Old 10-30-2011, 09:23 PM    (permalink
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BB has to grow ome balls and drop this bend dont break **** and be aggressive.
It really wasn't the bend but don't break defense. It was Ihedigbo mostly.

I personally think Ihedigbo, Ochocinco, and maybe one other could be totally cut tomorrow and I wouldn't be remotely shocked. I've been a big Ocho supporter because I like him personally, but he's totally wasting a roster spot right now. I'd rather have Darius Butler back over Ihedigbo.

I thought tonight's play was deceptive. It looked vanilla and most of the bad plays were a few select people. I really felt the Steelers D played a lot better than expected.
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Old 10-30-2011, 09:23 PM    (permalink
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What the hell was up with the offensive game plan today? Barely use BJGE, Woodcock and Ridley at all and play Faulk non stop? Barely run the ball against the leagues top pass defense?
You can't run on the Steelers. Even AP can't.
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Old 10-30-2011, 09:55 PM    (permalink
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It really wasn't the bend but don't break defense. It was Ihedigbo mostly.

I personally think Ihedigbo, Ochocinco, and maybe one other could be totally cut tomorrow and I wouldn't be remotely shocked. I've been a big Ocho supporter because I like him personally, but he's totally wasting a roster spot right now. I'd rather have Darius Butler back over Ihedigbo.

I thought tonight's play was deceptive. It looked vanilla and most of the bad plays were a few select people. I really felt the Steelers D played a lot better than expected.
Consistently playing off coverage with no blitzing is pretty bendy to me.
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Old 10-30-2011, 10:06 PM    (permalink
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Consistently playing off coverage with no blitzing is pretty bendy to me.
I mean that the reason why the Patriots lost wasn't their defense. It was one or two players in the defense being total sieves.
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Old 10-31-2011, 07:48 AM    (permalink
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I don't know why the Patriots can't adjust offensively when teams play single high with tight press man on 5 wide receivers. They've seen it so many times in the past couple of years. Brady's biggest flaw is that he doesn't trust his pass catchers enough to take a shot in these situations. Instead he's content to dump it short to Welker and Branch which oftentimes isn't there. That should have been Gronkowski/Hernandez's coming out party. They had cornerbacks on them all game. If you have a guy with several inches and 50+ pounds on the other guy let them play jump ball. Good things literally happened every time he looked Gronkowski's way last night, but he only looked at him like 5 times. The Steelers dared them to throw deep, but the combination of terrible offensive line and Brady's unwillingness to take a shot killed them. All they needed was one guy to beat man coverage and you have a big play. Take Branch off the field and put in Slater or Price.

Defensively, I'm just sad. Terrible with no fix. It's sad that I'd rather it be 3rd and 1 than 3rd and 15 because at least that way the other team might run it. They need talent and a new great defensive mind on the coaching staff for that side of the ball.
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Old 10-31-2011, 10:37 AM    (permalink
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I don't know why the Patriots can't adjust offensively when teams play single high with tight press man on 5 wide receivers. They've seen it so many times in the past couple of years. Brady's biggest flaw is that he doesn't trust his pass catchers enough to take a shot in these situations. Instead he's content to dump it short to Welker and Branch which oftentimes isn't there. That should have been Gronkowski/Hernandez's coming out party. They had cornerbacks on them all game. If you have a guy with several inches and 50+ pounds on the other guy let them play jump ball. Good things literally happened every time he looked Gronkowski's way last night, but he only looked at him like 5 times. The Steelers dared them to throw deep, but the combination of terrible offensive line and Brady's unwillingness to take a shot killed them. All they needed was one guy to beat man coverage and you have a big play. Take Branch off the field and put in Slater or Price.

Defensively, I'm just sad. Terrible with no fix. It's sad that I'd rather it be 3rd and 1 than 3rd and 15 because at least that way the other team might run it. They need talent and a new great defensive mind on the coaching staff for that side of the ball.
I felt the same way watching Gronk. He's open often and not targeted nearly enough. How is he not the 1st / 2nd read on every play at this point?

Where did that attacking defense we saw in preseason go? Right now the only place I expect to see it is on the back of a milk carton.
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Old 10-31-2011, 12:49 PM    (permalink
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To be perfectly honest... Brady's deep ball looked like **** yesterday. Taylor Price had a walk in TD if Brady hits him and he just flat missed.

I guess it had something to do with arm strength, but maybe that's why Brady doesn't go deep more.
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Old 10-31-2011, 01:05 PM    (permalink
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I couldn't watch the game due to power outage here in NH (and I had to take a cold shower before heading into work, now that was fun.) I did catch a little of the game on the radio - and Zolak (I think) made the point that without a deep threat it's easier for defenses to adjust to all the underneath routes. Is Price a viable alternative, or should Moss be brought back for a year? Although who am I kidding, BB wouldn't bring him back anyway.

I'm just a fan, so my opinion counts for nothing, really, but it seems to me BB needs another strong personality/voice in the personnel department that's willing to challenge him on FA's and draft picks. We rely on Dante for O.Lineman, and those guys turn out pretty well, but we seem to lack in other areas, and those weaknesses are starting to become pretty glaring. We'll probably make the playoffs -although I'm starting to doubt even that- but even if we do, this is not a championship caliber team. (Our defense is just so woeful, any decent QB is going to kill us.) Which obviously is really unfortunate as franchise QB's don't come along very often (see Denver, Miami, etc.)
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Old 10-31-2011, 01:21 PM    (permalink
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Is Price a viable alternative, or should Moss be brought back for a year?
Price had a 5-10 yard gap at one point deep where the db only caught back up because Brady's pass had no zip and was under thrown so Price had to wait for it.
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Old 10-31-2011, 01:32 PM    (permalink
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The way Brady played yesterday reminded me a lot of the Jets game in the playoffs, as people have already mentioned. I really feel like the ball just wasn't getting out quick enough and wasn't thrown with confidence. Felt like we were playing give up offense the entire game.
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Old 10-31-2011, 01:39 PM    (permalink
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To be perfectly honest... Brady's deep ball looked like **** yesterday. Taylor Price had a walk in TD if Brady hits him and he just flat missed.

I guess it had something to do with arm strength, but maybe that's why Brady doesn't go deep more.
Yep, but to defend Brady partially (as a fellow QB), when you see a guy late like that sometimes you rush it, like he did. The real problem was he didn't progress to Price, but just caught him out of the corner of his eye.

Price should be much more involved in his reads. As should Gronk
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Old 10-31-2011, 06:21 PM    (permalink
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It's a bit sad to look at how poor the bang for our buck has been this year in terms of who we've paid big money to through free-agency.

We have a lot of dead money this year and next because of cutting Bodden, Warren, Kaczur, and Banta-Cain. Those guys equal about $10,000,000 in dead money this year and next.

Next year we're going to have to pay out over $3,000,000 when we cut Ocho, and we're going to be paying more than we should for Light too.

Not to mention how big of a disaster Shawn Ellis has been with his $4,000,000 cap number this year.

Basically the point I'm trying to make is that this team has been horrible at signing these types of contributors recently. Now they have made some good deals with the Waters and Carter signings, but for the amount of money they've spent they've gotten very little results from it. Depth is good to a certain extent, but instead of paying 3 mediocre players $3.5 million why not just get the $10,000,000 guy. That guy (whomever it is) sure would look good on defense right now instead of Bodden and Ellis who we knew when we signed them weren't going to be huge difference makers.

I get kind of sad thinking about it because of how good this team could be if it actually, you know fixed its problems.
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Old 10-31-2011, 06:57 PM    (permalink
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It's a bit sad to look at how poor the bang for our buck has been this year in terms of who we've paid big money to through free-agency.

We have a lot of dead money this year and next because of cutting Bodden, Warren, Kaczur, and Banta-Cain. Those guys equal about $10,000,000 in dead money this year and next.

Next year we're going to have to pay out over $3,000,000 when we cut Ocho, and we're going to be paying more than we should for Light too.

Not to mention how big of a disaster Shawn Ellis has been with his $4,000,000 cap number this year.

Basically the point I'm trying to make is that this team has been horrible at signing these types of contributors recently. Now they have made some good deals with the Waters and Carter signings, but for the amount of money they've spent they've gotten very little results from it. Depth is good to a certain extent, but instead of paying 3 mediocre players $3.5 million why not just get the $10,000,000 guy. That guy (whomever it is) sure would look good on defense right now instead of Bodden and Ellis who we knew when we signed them weren't going to be huge difference makers.

I get kind of sad thinking about it because of how good this team could be if it actually, you know fixed its problems.
Yeah pretty much. I'm beginning to wonder if we'd be better than the colts minus tom.
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Old 10-31-2011, 07:11 PM    (permalink
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Hoyer is infinitely better than Painter. As is Mallett. So...yes.
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Old 10-31-2011, 07:22 PM    (permalink
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It's very, very frustrating. I'm not going to listen to anyone trying to apologize for it either; we just flat out suck of defense and just don't have very talented players. The fact that we've used 33 draft picks in 3 years, 12 on defensive players, and come away with these kinds of results is pathetic. What's even more pathetic is that every single one of them is either no longer with us, not playing, or extremely mediocre. We're a defense made up of piece players and practice squad guys with no true difference makers or guys who are exceptional talents.

It's really, really scary that we're not even really building towards anything. We've got one very good player in Vince Wilfork, two decent ones in Mayo and Chung, and then a whole bunch of JAGs and pocket lint to go along with them. Taking a more in depth look at those guys doesn't help any either.

Wilfork is a guy who makes others around him better. A nose tackle really, really can't do it by themselves. He's done a decent job making the hog slop we've got around him look like halfway serviceable players, but he just can't be a difference maker on his own. He's certainly trying, even going as far as picking off passes...but a nose tackle just can't do it on his own.

Mayo is a very strong tackler. He's very good at preventing guys from getting extra yardage in the passing game and against the run...but I'm sick of everyone pretending he's Ray Lewis or Patrick Willis. He's not in that conversation or even the conversation you have after that. Good player and not the guy you blame for the failures of this defense, but he's not a direct part of the path to improvement either.

Chung is a decent get, but he's another guy who's just limited. He wasn't expected to be anything more than a solid guy coming out. He doesn't have elite speed or the range that comes along with it. Helps out against the run has decent ball skills, but the book on him coming out rings true; not a guy you can trust in coverage. The sad part is that he's the best cover guy we have with this current group....by design. You can't blame anything more than our roster construction for that. Again, same category as Mayo; not a guy you blame, but certainly one who highlights the piss poor talent evaluation that's kept us from getting back into the Super Bowl mix for the past six years.

It's time to strip away the good will and call it like it is; we're losing to good teams like Pittsburgh because we don't have the talent to compete with them. The fact that we're paying $10M in dead money with more adding up is just the icing on the cake. We could totally deal with that if there was progress being made. But we're regressing. That's absolutely inexcusable. The company line has been "Oh, well, in a few years when these guys have some seasoning under their belts we'll be great!" is just tired, trite, and should be falling on deaf ears. How much better do you think Ron Brace is going to get at this point? How about Jermaine Cunningham? Brandon Deaderick? Would you honestly be surprised if these guys weren't with the team next year? Darius Butler is already chilling with Shawn Crable and Tyrone McKenzie in the never to be heard from again club....but the next batch of them will be so much better! Spikes and McCourty I'm not going to get on terribly because they've shown signs at the very least, but I'm not sold on either one of those guys being the type of elite players that change a the fortunes of this defense either. Where are the impact players? Oh, that's right. We're all about value. Value that gets you the worst defense in the NFL(but damn are they good at holding people to field goals and lucking into an interception!) and two very good tight ends on the other side of the ball.

We've consistently passed on guys who have become difference makers and shown an absolute unwillingness to try to draft them. I don't even want to think about going through free agents because we all saw how that turned out a few years back. Everyone wonders why we don't have a top ranked defense with a coach regarded as one of the most innovative, successful defensive coaches in the league. That's why. The common theme at the top of the defensive rankings is talent. All of those teams are flat out better personnel wise than us. I know rankings don't equal success and won't try to pretend to slant it any other way, but you're deluding yourself if you think the alternative we've decided to go with is acceptable. You don't win championships this way.
What's the point of moving laterally? Staying afloat just isn't good enough when you've got one of the best quarterbacks in the history of football in his prime. The window is open and it will not stay open forever. We're able to beat teams because Tom Brady is flat out that good. We would be able to do so much more if we were able to put a decent team together around him. If we were willing to.

I resent the fact I'm freaking out so much about one loss, but that's the type of game that counts for more than the L. That's the type of game that makes you ask questions. Actually, that's a bad way to put it. That's the type of game that answers them. Not the answer any of us want, but it is what it is. When you're starting street guys and special teamers(Phillip Adams has already been cut by us twice this year. But he was certainly "ready to play" as the motto goes), there's just not a whole lot outside of how poor we've been at putting together a roster.
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Old 10-31-2011, 07:59 PM    (permalink
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Honestly, I want Mangini back. The secondary has had all kinds of issues since he left, and he's sitting in CT just chilling out. Bring his ass back, mend fences, and make him the successor again...whatever it takes.

I really don't mind that they don't value the pass rush. I'm fine with that...but don't put on the display we saw Sunday in the secondary... That was horrid. The worst part was that the coverage was THERE. It was ******* there. They don't have a corner with a sack. Those practice squad guys are fine in Nickel and Dime roles, but they're playing to not lose their job... The Pats need guys who are playing to make plays and aren't worried about getting cut if they get burned trying to make a play.

Jump a ******* route. Seriously. If the Pats had been jumping routes at all Sunday, they would have torn the Steelers' offense apart because they couldn't do **** aside from those pass plays that the Patriots just let them have.
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Old 10-31-2011, 08:20 PM    (permalink
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I don't buy it's that simple to change. That's who those guys are. It's not because of how the scheme is or a matter of waiting until the coaching gets to them; that's who they are. They're objectively bad defensive backs who cover soft and allow easy completions. I'm not upset with them for not jumping routes and playing better because none of them have ever shown the ability to be any better than that sans McCourty last year. It's not their fault, it's just who they are. It's fairly cut and dry that we just need better players.
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Old 10-31-2011, 08:56 PM    (permalink
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Couldn't agree with EE any more at this point. Our defense is the worst in the league plain and simple. We can keep trying to be optimistic about it, and hope things turn around but were not going anywhere with the players we have on D. BB needs to stop with this stupid, stubborn way of just trading down every year, passing on pass rushers and figure out a way to get some elite talent on that side of the ball.
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