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Old 02-05-2012, 10:20 PM    (permalink
Babylon
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Originally Posted by Nalej View Post
I knew when my sig happened that our season was over too
The more i watch that play the more i think i could still make that catch at my age. How do you drop that?
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Old 02-05-2012, 10:21 PM    (permalink
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I knew when my sig happened that our season was over too
why would you do that to yourself?
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Old 02-05-2012, 10:27 PM    (permalink
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I fear for Tom Brady's life.

I mean, now that the Patriots are Super Bowl losers and he's basically the only thing keeping them going, obviously something bad is going to happen to him to keep NE out of the playoffs.
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Old 02-05-2012, 10:32 PM    (permalink
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I just wanted to stop by and say I am sorry for you guys. I can't imagine how bad it was watching Wes Welker of all people drop the nail in the coffin.

I can't imagine what it feels like. He is THE safest option on the field...It was shocking.

But You guys have been there 5 times in 10 years. There are a lot of teams that would trade with you.
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Old 02-05-2012, 10:40 PM    (permalink
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Yeah exactly. We had a good run, it had more ups than downs.

Considering our talent level we should be thrilled we won the AFC. We'll get back if BB decides to beef up the roster (finally) particularly on defense.

I'm not as pissed as I thought i'd be. I thought we played subpar, and so did the giants. We played as well as them and it came down to some stupid mistakes. Such is life.

I'm moving on to the draft. Wasn't a bad year ultimately.
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Old 02-05-2012, 10:41 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by TACKLE View Post
why would you do that to yourself?
I'm not sure. I'm on Facebook as well reading all the Giant fans cheers and all the **** talking posts on my wall as well.
There's no forgetting it, getting away from it... so I dwell in it.
I'm hoping that it'll lessen the heart brake sooner... but I doubt it.

My own ******* dad called me (he's from the Bronx) and said:
"Haha, you thought your Pats ever had a chance? Ha! Your patriots ******* suck! So how's the family?"

"We're fine, dad. I gotta go."
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Old 02-05-2012, 10:54 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wes Welker
I let the team down
http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-e...-let-team-down
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Old 02-06-2012, 12:20 AM    (permalink
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Yeah he absolutely let this ******* team down. Damn straight
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Old 02-06-2012, 01:35 AM    (permalink
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Welker had an Asante moment and we lost. But we wouldn't be here if we didnt have him and nor would we in 2007. The fact that we made it to the SB is amazing, but I would rather have gone 0-16 then have the season end the way it did. Can't blame anyone individually just a team loss. This one stings more than any loss ive been around for.
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Old 02-06-2012, 01:56 AM    (permalink
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This is tough. The notion the BB cant beat his old team and Brady cant beat the Giants really hurts. Front 7 isnt as bad as we thought, I think we need to go BPA all draft and not trade down. DB/WR/C/RB/LB/DL need to be upgraded
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Old 02-06-2012, 04:16 AM    (permalink
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After sleeping on it I feel less ****** off, still stings, but pretty much all of us agreed we probably weren't gonna do **** in the playoffs this year. A few guys even said as long as we don't go one and done then it's been somewhat of a success.

The reason why it hurts, and i'm taking nothing away from the Giants(Eli is a boss) but the Pats lost this game. That stpid safety at the start of the game meant on the Giants last drive they needed a field goal instead of a TD. In general the defense actually played pretty well. The Manningham catch looking back was just sensational. Perfect throw by Manning, finger tip catch while getting his shoulder pounded, toe tapping in bounds just before Chung lowers the boom.

But the offense killed us yesterday. I'm putting two big mistakes on Brady. The safety as I mentioned and the INT. Gronk against Blackburn he has to take 101 times out of 100 but it was just a poor throw. He underthrew it knowing that Gronk probably would struggle to go up and get it. Make sure if Gronk doesn't catch it no one does.

Then the drops. The ************* drops. Welker's drop was huge but Branch's and Hernandez's on the last drive were just as bad. Sure if Welker catches that we probably win but if Branch catches that first 20+ yarder then we're rolling with 45 seconds left in Giants territory.

Tough to swallow right now but we will be a better team next year. Lots of cap space to work with and not a lot of potential FAs.

By the way, why is Logan Mankins not getting more heat? When the game was on the line he couldn't block either Canty or Joseph. Everyone talks about their NASCAR front but they got held in check for the most part. But Brady was running for his life in the fourth quarter because of interior pressure.
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Old 02-06-2012, 07:26 AM    (permalink
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Offense did play poorly. I put alot of that on the WRs. There were way too many dropped passes. Welker knows he lost the game and hopefully works harder from it, but Branch, Ocho et al. were non existant.

Hern had a decent game, but I can only wonder how it would've been if Gronk couldve accelerated half decently.

We need to cut Branch and Ocho and pickup Lloyd and a deep guy in FA or less preferably the draft.

We gotta let BJGE go, hes decent but Ridley is nearly at his level and has way more upside and completely revamp our defensive backfield. I liked McCourty playing safety down the stretch but Idgh is all around bad, and Chung is just a hitter. I don't know how we address the secondary TBH. On paper we have Arrington Dowling and McCourty at corner as a front 3, which shouldn't be /that/ terrible. But clearly more talent is needed.

Safety is where we're missing that upper tier cover guy. Chung is only average in coverage and I think we should do whatever we can to secure a cover safety by any means.

The defensive line, I think this group has severe change this year. Alot of departures and I think we go draft heavy on the position.

Offensively I like where we're at outside of WR. This is actually a pretty easy fix given our draft/cap status.

I gotta like our chances going forward /if/ we actually fix things and stop saving for the day that never comes.

As for the super bowl, it was ******. But it stings ALOT less than 07 for me. I was just happy to be there with the talent we had. Both teams played pretty poorly and it wasn't a high quality super bowl. All came down to a stupid drop for us.
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Old 02-06-2012, 07:32 AM    (permalink
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Well I think we can all agree that sucked hard.

I'm more ok with it then I initially was because when I look back on it, this team had no business winning the Superbowl. It only stings because we ended up playing a similarly flawed team that was able to make a few plays at the end, whereas we ****** them all up.

Coaching wise I have to give BB and the staff props. They were brilliant on defense and considering the front 4 barely got any pressure and the players in the secondary can't cover anyone besides Sterling Moore on occasion, their scheme for the game was fantastic. They took out Victor Cruz, hit the Giants receivers hard in zone coverage, and got players like Danny Woodhead involved which they needed to do. They dialed up the right plays on those last 2 drives, but the receivers straight up dropped them. From the second Welker dropped that past I knew we were screwed. When you're a team that wins superbowls your players need to make those types of plays. It's just a huge stomach punch because against the Giants Welker and Samuel can't make relatively easy plays whereas Tyree and Manningham make once in a lifetime catches.

I give props to the Giants because they didn't make any major mistakes, and the ones they did make they where able to recover (2 fumbles). I don't think the Giants were anywhere near as good as the media made them out to be this week, and for most of the game it seemed as if the Patriots offense would end up getting on track and break the game wide open, but it didn't happen.

If we're going to win another Superbowl it's going to come down to a couple of things that need to stop happening.

1) Receivers need to hold on to the freaking ball! Whether it has been Welker, Branch, Crumpler, or Reche Cauldwell we've been plagued by huge drops in recent years.

2) The defense/special teams needs to get us the ball on the opponents side of the field. We've given the offense a lot of crap, but it's a bit unrealistic to expect them to drive 80+ yards down the field 4-5 times a game.

3) Bernard Pollard needs to stay away from the Patriots. Brady, Welker, and Gronk. I cringe thinking about who it could be next.

4) Our big $ players need to show up in big games. Mankins has played like a joke in the past 2 superbowls, Mayo although he forced a fumble was largely invisible, and Wilfork had a subpar game by his standards. These guys have contracts around $150 million combined, but they certainly didn't play like it.

5) Finally some good old fashioned luck. We got some against Cundiff and in 2006 we had the Chargers game, but if we're evenly matched luck can be the determining factor. It was in 2007 for sure, and the Giants were fortunate a couple of times in this game. It's difficult to win when you're not the team getting some breaks along the way.

Congrats to the Giants they have some big time players on that team. Once we get a few more we'll be able to get another one. How long that takes? Who knows.
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Old 02-06-2012, 07:57 AM    (permalink
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I thought the defensive game plan was brilliant. Cruz was a non factor and would not have scored his TD had Mayo played the ball instead of focusing on Cruz. If Mayo turns his head it is at worst a field goal and at best a pick 6.

Brandon Spikes had a Jekyll and Hyde performance. Obviously BB decided he was going to let him be aggressive and shoot gaps and fill lanes and he made some great tackles. He arm tackled the 265lb Brandon Jacobs at one stage, while being blocked. But, particularly in the end of the first/start of the second the Giants were able to exploit his over aggressiveness by running counters and such to the outside. This also provided more evidence of our lack of overall speed on defense.

It hurt the pass rush that we had one DE playing and a whole lot of DTs. Anderson played well but when the second best pass rusher is Rob Ninkovich it's a bad sign. Neither Wilfork or Love got anything going up the middle. In fact Wilfork got dominated pretty much all game.

I can't really complain about the secondary. Chung frustrates me at times before he also seems a little late to react. The one good hit on Nicks would have been a catch had Manning not delayed a fraction. Ihedigbo didn't do anything of note either good or bad. Moore and Molden made some nice plays but they just aren't talented enough to cut it.
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Old 02-06-2012, 08:33 AM    (permalink
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The offenses problems can be centered on the WR corp.

The defense is much more difficult to pinpoint the exact problem(s).
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Old 02-06-2012, 09:14 AM    (permalink
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Well if you break it down by position or even scheme

43

DE-Carter and Anderson will both hopefully be back and should keep up their form from this year. Jermaine Cunningham will hopefully be healthy as well. If one of the better pass rushers becomes available in the draft I would not be opposed to taking them.

DT-VW probably should play less snaps IMO. Kyle Love should be his back up at the nose. The problem is there is no 3 tech/Under Tackle type to play beside Wilfork so he even plays that role. Gerard Warren, Ron Brace, Myron Pryor etc provide ok depth. A difference maker would be ideal.

OLB-Mayo is extremely solid at WILL. I would prefer him to be more of a playmaker but he is what he is. Ninkovich does his job but will never be more than a decent guy. Donta Hightower would be a big upgrade at SAM and give a bit more versatility.

ILB-Spikes brings a nasty attitude and can set the tone. Hopefully he can find the right balance between aggressive and out of control. Fletcher is a great guy to have as a backup. Mayo also slides inside in a 34 set so ILB is set IMO.

CB-I don't know what to make of McCourty. If he can get somewhere in between this year and last year I would be happy enough. Dowling has always had injury problems but looked like a stud when he played. Arrington could be a great slot CB with his physicality. Moore and Molden should really be depth players. I would take either an elite athlete or playmaker in the draft here. Janoris Jenkins and Stephon Gilmore should be close to where we pick.

Safety-I'm tempted to say just tear it up and start again. Chung brings so much that I like but he just can't play the pass. If BB decided to go for someone to stay home at FS and use Chung as a SS then he could be an impact player. But BB loves safeties who can be both. I would prefer Markelle Martin in the second but I feel if Barron is available at 27 BB will take him and if not would go for Harrison Smith or George Iloka over Martin.

34

The back end would have the same concerns.

5 technique-Do the Pats have anyone on their roster except Wilfork who would be an impact 5 technique? I don't believe they do. If they go back to a 3 man front someone like Brockers if available would be nice, or maybe Jared Crick later on. Brace and Deaderick are just guys.

NT-Could, and should be the strength of the defense. Wilfork is the premier NT in the NFL and Kyle Love is more than adequate as a back up.

OLB-It would all depend on how they view Mark Anderson. If he is comfortable in space he could definitely be the weakside OLB standing up. If not they need to get one. Andre Branch, Nick Perry??? Ninkovich could be upgraded on the strong side as well. Once again the best option may be Hightower. Cunningham needs to stay healthy too as he can play either role.

ILB-Very good situation here. Good to very good starters and nice depth.
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Old 02-06-2012, 10:46 AM    (permalink
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I have come to a few conclusions:

1, i hope somebody puts their helmet directly on the side of bernard
pollards knee and ends his career.

2, The O line played a pretty good game overall.  the run blocking was
effective for the most part, if not spectacular, and brady had for the
most part, a pretty clean pocket.  1 of the sacks was clearly a
coverage sack.  granted brady had to do quite a bit of moving around
in the pocket but you cannot reasonably expect to have 0 rush all game
against anyone.

3, Brady played a pretty good game.  his numbers, while not eye
popping, were solid and he played a good game.  he hit welker at the
end, and if welker holds onto the ball, we win.  straight up, that was
a game winning catch.  the giants had 1 time out left, there were like
3 minutes on the clock and that would have put us well within field
goal range, with an obvious chance at the end zone.  Then on the last
drive, he hits branch, who drops it, then hernandez, who drops it.
can't blame him for that.  all of this with an altered offense (see
point 1)

4, The offensive playcalling was unimaginitive.  there was one screen,
which was nice, but overall it just seemed very conservative and at
times, down right predictable.  part of this, im sure, was due to the
fact that gronk was basically a shell of himself (i hate bernard
pollard more than anyone).  why did we go away from the no huddle
hurry up?  end of the first half, no huddle and we score.  beginning
of the second half, no huddle and we score. then we...stop?

5, The team plays just as they are drafted.  The team is filled with a
bunch of average to very good players, but there is almost no elite
talent.  Brady, Gronk are the only elite talents.  Mayo, Wilfork,
Chung, Mankins, Hernandez are very good but not elite players.  For
the love of all things sacred, please stop trading down and draft some
elite talent (and yes, i am fully aware of the irony in that the 2
elite players were drafted after the first round).

6, The defense is just terrible.  They played ok at best yesterday,
but I would put the majority of the blame on them.  The best you can
reasonably expect from this defense is a mid length drive, and hold
them to a long field goal attempt or a punt, and hope for a touchback.
They simply cannot get off the field....ever.  I'm not a fan of how
they rank defenses by yards allowed, and agree when people say 'well
the ranking doesn't tell the whole story, they aren't that low ranked
in points allowed.'  yes, but points allowed doesnt tell the whole
story either.  giving the offense a long field to drive every time is
almost as bad as giving up the score.  essentially, in a tight game
like yesterday, the patriots are simply unable to play the field
position game.  no matter where the opponent starts with the ball,
they are gonna go right down the field.  you can't predicate your
whole defense on forcing turnovers or only getting stops in the red
zone.  for one, it tires the defense out to run that many plays, and 2
it keeps the ball away from brady and the offense.  if they arent
firing on all cylinders then the defense cannot prop up the team.
they are a sieve and in need of a HUGE infusion of talent at almost
every position.  Tracey white should never...EVER see the field on
defense.  they are a big front 7 which is great when you are playing
against the run, but simply terrible at getting to the passer on a
consistent basis, and thus you leave your below average secondary out
to dry.

7, nobody stepped up to make a play yesterday, on either side of the
ball.  nobody on defense stood up and got the defense going with a big
play.  nobody on offense stepped up in a big moment and delivered.
the void of a big playmaker was very evident yesterday.

all of that crap and it was still a close game.

going to the draft, i see the needs as follows:

S- chung is good.  nobody else is.

OLB/DE both 4-3 and 3-4 - somebody needs to be able to rush the
passer.  there is nobody on the roster who can do this...maybe mark
anderson.....maybe.  we also need more athleticism up front.  we rush
4 300lb guys at the passer and wonder why we dont get any pressure.

WR - branch did almost nothing yesterday, i think ocho will be back so
they can see if he learned the playbook in the offseason but he is
old.  they do not have a deep threat, someone who is capable of
keeping the defense honest.

C - just because connolly and koppen are FA's.  i would say guard but
i think cannon will move there in the offseason and be a bulldog next
year.

TE - can we please get some sort of backup for gronk, you know, just
in case he gets hurt or something?
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Old 02-06-2012, 10:47 AM    (permalink
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Sorry for the format. My phone messed it up
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Old 02-06-2012, 11:07 AM    (permalink
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OLB/DE, FS, Deepthreat

Really, if we address these positions... there's no stopping us.
A backup for Gronk would be nice as well, as Bighurt suggested.
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Old 02-06-2012, 12:44 PM    (permalink
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I know nobody expected us to do anything in the playoffs because of our personnel, but lets be honest we should have won that game. So many plays just bit us in the ass, not just Welkers drop.

-Ninkovich going offsides on the 3rd and 7, they didnt convert but after the penalty they did.

-Ihedigbo wiffing on the Bradshaw fumble.

-Mayo on the Cruz TD

-The safety

-Too many men on the field for the Cruz fumble

Plain and simple we had the game. People act like we didn't deserve to be there, that is BS. Sure we had a lot of fill in type players but we also have a **** ton of talent and a coach and system that got us there.
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Old 02-06-2012, 01:02 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Don Vito View Post
I know nobody expected us to do anything in the playoffs because of our personnel, but lets be honest we should have won that game. So many plays just bit us in the ass, not just Welkers drop.

-Ninkovich going offsides on the 3rd and 7, they didnt convert but after the penalty they did.

-Ihedigbo wiffing on the Bradshaw fumble.

-Mayo on the Cruz TD

-The safety

-Too many men on the field for the Cruz fumble

Plain and simple we had the game. People act like we didn't deserve to be there, that is BS. Sure we had a lot of fill in type players but we also have a **** ton of talent and a coach and system that got us there.
It's what has made all these seasons so tragic, so many stupid little things that get in the way. It's not like they have been soundly beaten in any game except the Ravens game and that one against the Broncos either. It's just a string of really bad circumstances like:

2006: Samuel pass interference penalty that gets rescinded by the league, Reche's horrendous drop, no call on pass interference in the endzone against Jackson.

2007: We all remember most of them :(

2008: Knee injury

2010: Crumpler drop, fumble of the snap on that fake punt.

2011: Welker drop, Branch drops, all the things Vito mentioned.

We should have at least one more than we do. I feel like we'll still get another one before BB and Brady retire, but **** for as good as it's been record wise it's been difficult to watch them lose like this.

Still we need to take a step back every now and appreciate what's going on. Even without SB victories it's still amazing to win 80% of our games year in and year out.
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Old 02-06-2012, 01:39 PM    (permalink
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-Mayo on the Cruz TD
I'm not mad at Mayo for the play (bad stuff happens once in a while), but the Patriots don't practice getting their head around enough.

The back 7 are terrible about this. McCourty went from being a very good corner to bad this year and Darius Butler just never developed because no one seems to be able to find the ball when it's in the air. One major reason is they are too focused on the receiver.
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Old 02-06-2012, 01:44 PM    (permalink
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OLB/DE, FS, Deepthreat

Really, if we address these positions... there's no stopping us.
A backup for Gronk would be nice as well, as Bighurt suggested.
Screw a backup, I want two Gronks out there. If we can get Fleener in the second I want him. There would be no defending Gronk, Hernandez and Fleener + WW and a deep threat.
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Old 02-06-2012, 05:44 PM    (permalink
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Solid game guys. I am not going to be a hater or jerk but I want to point about in regards to drops, not recovering fumbles, etc..you guys thrived on the ball bouncing your way for 4 years. Sometimes it's just not your time. Brady is a stud yes. you need some O line. Solder was a turnstile, Light was mediocre, Mankins sucked balls and I don't remember anything else. YOu need a stretch the field playmaker. Secondary, DEs that don't rely on semi-coverage sacks.

Who the **** am I kidding. You guys have a few years left with Brady I would go all in getting a player like Vincent Jackson. I think you play maker like that changes everything. Obviously you can address D via draft, FA.
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Old 02-06-2012, 06:24 PM    (permalink
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Solid game guys. I am not going to be a hater or jerk but I want to point about in regards to drops, not recovering fumbles, etc..you guys thrived on the ball bouncing your way for 4 years. Sometimes it's just not your time. Brady is a stud yes. you need some O line. Solder was a turnstile, Light was mediocre, Mankins sucked balls and I don't remember anything else. YOu need a stretch the field playmaker. Secondary, DEs that don't rely on semi-coverage sacks.

Who the **** am I kidding. You guys have a few years left with Brady I would go all in getting a player like Vincent Jackson. I think you play maker like that changes everything. Obviously you can address D via draft, FA.
Is Bowe getting tagged? lol. Would like him.
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