New England Patriots Discussion

[FlyingElvis]

I don't see Welker signing a contact that is less than top 10 WR (if not more) b/c of his production. It's time to get something for him, as I just don't see him being worth that type of money.

He will be missed. There's no way he's simpy a system guy like some want to believe, but he's jut not worth the huge money WRs are getting right now and there's no way he's signing for 6-8M per year after Jackson / Jackson / Johnson inked mega deals.

I do agree that a trading him for a mere second seems way too low. Especially considering getting Amendola would cost our second in the process. Maybe Rams #2 plus the Skins #2 or even the Rams 2013 #2 and I'd be a little less upset about it.

[cmarq83]

Originally Posted by FlyingElvis

I don't see Welker signing a contact that is less than top 10 WR (if not more) b/c of his production. It's time to get something for him, as I just don't see him being worth that type of money.

He will be missed. There's no way he's simpy a system guy like some want to believe, but he's jut not worth the huge money WRs are getting right now and there's no way he's signing for 6-8M per year after Jackson / Jackson / Johnson inked mega deals.

I do agree that a trading him for a mere second seems way too low. Especially considering getting Amendola would cost our second in the process. Maybe Rams #2 plus the Skins #2 or even the Rams 2013 #2 and I'd be a little less upset about it.

I think everyone is way overestimating Welker's market value. We're talking about an undersized slot receiver that's 31 years old and has had an ACL/MCL tear. I like him a lot, but for a team to give up that type of compensation and give the guy a $45+ million contract is pure fantasy.

Look at guys like Boldin, Holmes, and Marshall. Granted all those guys had issues, but they all had about the same to offer as Welker and none of those teams got anywhere near the type of compensation you're talking about for Welker in a trade besides Marshall the first time, but Welker doesn't approach that kind of value.

A swap of a late 2nd for an early second is probably the best we could realistically hope for if that trade was to go through. Maybe we'd get an extra 5th or so as compensation as well.

[cmarq83]

http://www.patriots.com/news/article...6-097d7481583a


Oh God! The stupidity

[descendency]

Originally Posted by cmarq83

http://www.patriots.com/news/article...6-097d7481583a


Oh God! The stupidity

We could use a full back.

[FlyingElvis]

Did not read. To scared.

[Razor]

Originally Posted by FlyingElvis

Did not read. To scared.

The worst part isn't the read, it's when you vote and find out what other people voted.

[FlyingElvis]

Originally Posted by Razor

The worst part isn't the read, it's when you vote and find out what other people voted.

Oh, ok. That's actually less scary. I already know that people are stupid. I was afraid there might be some substance to the notion of Tebow to NE.

[cmarq83]

Per Adam Scheffter: Pats signed Lloyd!!!!!!

[Nalej]

Nice. Hope BB stood his ground on the price.

[Vaylor]

Brandon Lloyd's deal with Pats is 3yrs/$12M

Good God what an amazing deal.

[BradysKnee]

Originally Posted by Vaylor

Good God what an amazing deal.

Wow that is an incredible bargain.

[Nalej]

[RWills]

Trevor Scott will be someone to watch in TC this year....Im loving the depth they are building

[descendency]

Trevor Scott has a lot of talent, but has been injury prone. If him and Mark Anderson were our DEs... we could have a big year.

[Nalej]

I like what we've done so far.
Lloyd is a perfect fit (theoretically), Gonz is a gamble as a b/u to Welker
T.Scott adds versatility and some pass rushing ability
and S.Gregory, I read, is suppose to be pretty good as a FS but was forced into SS due to injuries and regressed.
I know BB likes his S's to be able to play FS and SS, so I guess you get that from him.
Throw in that Scott and Greg can play in STs and it seems like a perfect BB match

[AntoinCD]

Originally Posted by Nalej

I like what we've done so far.
Lloyd is a perfect fit (theoretically), Gonz is a gamble as a b/u to Welker
T.Scott adds versatility and some pass rushing ability
and S.Gregory, I read, is suppose to be pretty good as a FS but was forced into SS due to injuries and regressed.
I know BB likes his S's to be able to play FS and SS, so I guess you get that from him.
Throw in that Scott and Greg can play in STs and it seems like a perfect BB match

I agree looking at it now I love what we have been doing.

Lloyd may be the only guy who is classified as a "starter" this year but Fanene, Gregory, Scott and Gonzalez offer at the very least good depth.

Gregory is an upgrade over anyone not named Chung at safety. If we get Landry as well then I think we are comfortable enough at the position.

Fanene will be a role player but in the Pats sub defense that is a pretty big role. We got no interior rush last year outside of VW.

Scott adds depth at DE/OLB and insurance if Anderson and Carter don't come back.

Gonzalez when healthy was a very good player with the Colts. Big IF to the equation here but if he stays healthy could be a real nice pick up.

It really sets us up for the draft and gives more flexibilty. We don't need to over draft a WR, but if one is there at 27 (say Kendall Wright for example) then we take him.

We don't need to reach on Harrison Smith or Markelle Martin now at safety.

[Razor]

Brandon Lloyd's deal with Pats is 3yrs/$12M

Nice. That's waaaaay under $8 mil per year ;) I really like this deal, hopefully he'll bring the right attitude.

[Nalej]

Yea, I forgot about Fanene but you covered it.

The best part of the B.Lloyd deal is that it doesn't give Wes Welker any more leverage.
You paid Lloyd X so that means I definitely deserve Y. Nope. None of that.

[FlyingElvis]

Wow! That Lloyd deal is an absolute steal.

I'm really happy with that move.

[Razor]

I have this weird feeling that Anthony Gonzales is going to end up as a huge steal.. I Colts fan I know confirmed me in this, saying that as long as he's healthy he'll catch everything. Prior to his injuries he was a fast receiver as well so maybe he could become a deep threat?

[Babylon]

Originally Posted by Nalej

I like what we've done so far.
Lloyd is a perfect fit (theoretically), Gonz is a gamble as a b/u to Welker
T.Scott adds versatility and some pass rushing ability
and S.Gregory, I read, is suppose to be pretty good as a FS but was forced into SS due to injuries and regressed.
I know BB likes his S's to be able to play FS and SS, so I guess you get that from him.
Throw in that Scott and Greg can play in STs and it seems like a perfect BB match

I like the moves but wouldnt give them a huge grade for them. Defensively i dont see that much improvement and the receivers have the potential to be an upgrade but gonna have to wait and see. It's not like Lloyd is Mike Wallace in terms of speed and Gonzo has to prove he can stay healthy. color me cautiously optimistic.

[Matthew Jones]

The Brandon Lloyd signing is one of the best of the entire free agent period because it perfectly blends need, fit, and value. The Patriots need a depth thread, Lloyd fits Josh McDaniels' offense, and the contract was for far less than the market dictated. Anthony Gonzalez had some incredible measurables coming out of Ohio State and pending the financial parameters of the deal that seems to be a nice low-cost risk. Trevor Scott is another player who has been hobbled by injuries in recent years but tested off the charts at Buffalo's pro day during the pre-draft process and represents a low-risk move as well. The Patriots moved quickly in signing DT Jonathan Fanene and S Steve Gregory to deals, paying a little bit more than expected in order to address two important roles. Fanene can play DT, DE, or five-technique and adds a pass-rush presence to replace Mike Wright; he should steal some of the snaps that Brandon Deaderick/Shaun Ellis shared last year as well. Gregory can play FS or SS and moved into the slot at times; he is a quality special teams contributor. Speaking of special teams, the Patriots made the right decision in bringing back Matthew Slater, Niko Koutouvides, and Tracy White. Dan Connolly was re-signed to start at center. Overall the Patriots have done an excellent job thus far in free agency.

It appears that New England will sign tight end Daniel Fells in the next dew days as well; Fells is expected to compete for the third tight end spot and followed Josh McDaniels from Denver to St. Louis last season. The Patriots have shown some interest in LaRon Landry, but Landry is visiting a number of other teams as well and would have to check out medically in order to receive an offer.

Change could be around the corner at a number of positions for the Patriots; both Deion Branch and Chad Ochocinco are rumored to be on the way out. Branch will likely be forced to retire considering the lack of interest in free agency; he has never played in Josh McDaniels' offense. Ochocinco was unable to find the field last season and looks to be out of a role. Running backs BenJarvus Green-Ellis and Kevin Faulk could leave town; Faulk is a near-certainty to call it quits and Green-Ellis has been exploring his options after losing snaps to Stevan Ridley last season. Center Dan Koppen should be headed elsewhere following the Connolly signing.

It looks like the depth at defensive back will be overhauled with Nate Jones, Antwaun Molden, and Bret Lockett unlikely to receive offers, although James Ihedigbo has been rumored to be close to re-signing. Linebacker Gary Guyton is likely out; he could be replaced with Wesley Woodyard. New England may hold off on signing Gerard Warren as well.

The most problematic aspect of free agency is in regards to defensive end Mark Anderson, who has been contacted by a number of teams including the rival Miami Dolphins. Anderson rejuvenated his career in New England last season but much of his early-game pressure was the result of the Patriots' schemes or coverage. Seven or so of his sacks could be considered "garbage" sacks; New England will be forced to decide if their young pass rusher is the real deal or another Tully Banta-Cain. At this point it looks much more likely that Andre Carter will return than Anderson, although Carter will likely have to wait until he is healthy to sign with the team.

There are still a number of quality free agents available should New England decide to look at outside free agents. The Patriots have been linked with Rams restricted free agent wide receiver Danny Amendola, who was briefly coached by McDaniels last season but would require a second-round pick in order to acquire. Defensive end Luis Castillo is a former first-round pick with 3-4 experience, Matt Roth is another pass-rusher who has scheme experience, although negotiations broke down with last season. The Patriots are reportedly uninterested in linebacker Kamerion Wimbley, but Manny Lawson could be had for cheaper and has experience at defensive end and outside linebacker in both 3-4 and 4-3 defenses; he is considered a quality run defender and excellent in coverage. Former Patriots swing reserves Mark LeVoir, Ryan O'Callaghan, Russ Hochstein and Quinn Ojinnaka are available if New England is interested in offensive line depth; LeVoir played for McDaniels last season as well.

Other potential targets:

RB Sammy Morris (DAL) - could return as fourth back if the Patriots miss out on Green-Ellis and Kevin Faulk retires

OT Adam Goldberg (STL) - played for Josh McDaniels last season but seems less likely than other options

DT Marcus Thomas (DEN) - durable young run-stuffer from Florida but offers no pass-rush value

DE Ikaika Alama-Francis (MIA) - 6'5", 290 pound defender who has DT/DE versatility and 3-4 experience

DE Raheem Brock (SEA) - New England showed interest last year but Jonathan Fanene has a similar role

DE Wallace Gilberry (KC) - young, low-cost Alabama rusher with seven sacks in 2010

DE Aaron Smith (PIT) - known to be a Belichick favorite but will probably retire due to age/injury

LB Bobby Carpenter (DET) - former Bill Parcells first-round pick who contributes on special teams

CB Travis Daniels (KC) - depth cornerback option who has played in Miami as well

CB Kelvin Hayden (ATL) - didn't work out in Atlanta last year but is a low-cost player who used to be a star

CB Jonathan Wilhite (DEN) - remember this guy!?

FS Abram Elam (DAL) - has played for Eric Mangini and Rob Ryan; solid but unspectacular and limited in coverage

FS James Sanders (ATL) - will be relegated to a backup role in Atlanta but may be forced into the same position in New England

SS Sabby Piscitelli (KC) - rover linebacker for Romeo Crennell last season but is more of a depth option

SS Bob Sanders (SD) - injured every season but could be considered in the third wave for the same role Landry would be assigned

[descendency]

I'd rather not bother with Laron Landry. I don't see him as an improvement and doubt he even makes the team.

[Matthew Jones]

Originally Posted by descendency

I'd rather not bother with Laron Landry. I don't see him as an improvement and doubt he even makes the team.

He would easily make the team but I'm concerned about his durability/steroids.

[BradysKnee]

You guys may not want the hulk on our team but i do.