New England Patriots Discussion

[cmarq83]

So what does everyone's big board look like in terms of what they'd reasonably like the Pats to do at their relative draft spots?

For me I'd say (In order from favorite to last guy I'd give a value of that pick for):

Only 2 guys I'd consider trading up for are:
Morris Claiborne-Incredibly unlikely
Michael Floyd

There are also guys like Upshaw, Cox, or Kuechly who if they fall would have to shake up the draft board.

1st rounders
Michael Brockers
Janoris Jenkins
Kevin Zeitler
Dre Kirkpatrick
Stephen Hill
Whitney Mercilus
Mark Barron
Peter Konz


2nd (pick 48)
Harrison Smith
Shea McClellin
Rueben Randle
Kendall Reyes
Brandon Boykin
Alshon Jeffrey
Andre Branch

2nd round (63)
Jerel Worthy
Bruce Irvin
Jared Crick
Trumaine Johnson
Markelle Martin

3rd Round (95)
Ryan Broyles
Derek Wolfe
Cam Johnson
Joe Adams
Marvin McNutt
George Iloka
Mike Martin

4th round
Ty Hilton
Danny Trevethan
Omar Bolden
David Molk
Jeff Fuller
Mike Brewster

[Blackluck]

I don't have a big board per se, but from what I've been reading that looks about right. I would probably remove Bruce Irvin (too small for BB) and add Josh Robinson (CB, Central Florida). I think Harrison Smith might be gone by 48. It's a tricky draft at the bottom of the first. It may end up we trade out entirely of the first round or end up with a Zeitler or Konz unless Brockers drops (which looks possible now.) Most likely everyone else with your 1st round grades looks to be gone aside from Hill, and while Josh would take him I don't know if he can convince BB.

[descendency]

Irvin could be a decent 3rd round pick. He won't play 3 downs, just obvious passing downs.

[cmarq83]

Originally Posted by Blackluck

I don't have a big board per se, but from what I've been reading that looks about right. I would probably remove Bruce Irvin (too small for BB) and add Josh Robinson (CB, Central Florida). I think Harrison Smith might be gone by 48. It's a tricky draft at the bottom of the first. It may end up we trade out entirely of the first round or end up with a Zeitler or Konz unless Brockers drops (which looks possible now.) Most likely everyone else with your 1st round grades looks to be gone aside from Hill, and while Josh would take him I don't know if he can convince BB.

I believe it'll be a numbers game at some point and somebody on the top of that 1st round list is going to fall. If not I'd be perfectly fine with picking Zeitler at 27 and then trading back into the top of the 2nd round and getting either Harrison Smith or Shea McClellin, who are 2 of my favorite prospects. I think they can't go with both Konz and Zeitler because we have enough there already, and the need at Safety, Pass Rusher, and CB is too daunting to pass up your first 2 picks on. Plus I'm not crazy about Konz, I just think his talent level and upside makes him first round worthy. I like Josh Robinson too, and he was probably one of the last guys to miss my draft board, but I think some team will be enamored with his speed and will take him by 63. I don't think he's quite good enough to be in that pick 48 consideration though.

Hill would fill the one need left on offense which is a guy who can run go routes and fly past guys, and he'd be able to do that on day 1. Lloyd even with his high YPC is a 4.6 guy who gets away with amazing hands and body control. He's not a traditional deep threat in the mold of Wallace or Calvin Johnson, but Hill could immediately be that guy. Plus, BB hasn't shied away from upside, particularly on offense and on the outside, so he might not shy away from Hill who could end up being as good as Julio Jones when it's all said and done.

[Vaylor]

Hill had the worst short shuttle time of any WR at the combine. Belichick wouldn't take him in the 3rd round.

[Matthew Jones]

The Patriots signed LB Bobby Carpenter today. I'm excited to have him on the team; he impressed me as a prospect. Supposedly his career has been hindered by mental mistakes and inconsistent play.

[Vaylor]

He can't be worse than Gary Guyton.

[Don Vito]

I remember a lot of people thought we would take Carpenter in his draft year when he and AJ Hawk were coming out of Ohio State

[Jvig43]

Brockers came in for a visit within the last 24 hours.

[Don Vito]

Originally Posted by Jvig43

Brockers came in for a visit within the last 24 hours.

Brockers is one of my dream picks. I know he didn't do great at the combine but I watched the LSU pro day and he was all business, no smiling or anything and busting ass in all the drills. Looked so intense. His 40 might not have been great, but he was moving at the pro day and looked so smooth for such a big dude. That reaffirmed my fandom of Brockers, watching how hard he was hitting the bags in all the drills and how hard he was going was impressive to watch when you combine it with how big and smooth he looked.

[descendency]

I can't see the Broncos passing on Brockers and Belichick isn't going to trade up (in the first round) for a raw redshirt sophomore based on upside. I like him, but I also realize he just doesn't fit the Patriots draft MO.

I wouldn't be totally shocked if the Patriots didn't have a second or later round grade on Brockers.

[Razor]

I've cooled off about Brockers these last few days... From what I've read he doesn't seem like he'd fit into the culture in NE. We've picked players like that before and we have a strong locker room, but I think I like Chandler Jones more... Whether it's at DE or 3-4 OLB he's going to be a beast with his size and long arms (>35"). I think he's going to be a beast and I love his instincts. His motor is good as well and I would have a hard time about passing on him with the 27th pick. If we do I think Baltimore is going to take him... I think of him like a less athletic JPP but with less bust potential.

[Blackluck]

What have you read about Brockers? I agree with Don Vito, I'm in the pro Brockers camp myself.

[Razor]

I've read some opinions saying that he's immature and not the hardest of workers, seemingly relying more on his natural talent than hard work. Just doesn't seem like a Patriots type of guy if it's true, but if BB decides that he's worth taking a chance on I'm all for it. I'm a huge fan of Brockers and have been since december. But I think that we all have to acknowledge that the bust risk with Brockers is higher than for most other players this year.

[BradysKnee]

I'm probably in the minority, but I have a hardon for Branch over Brockers and maybe even Upshaw etc. I think Branch fits perfectly in our 3-4.

[FlyingElvis]

I'd be surprised if the Pats had a round one grade on Brockers. Multi-year production is huge and BB rarely even drafts sophmores, let alone red shirts. If Razor is right and they feel he lacks maturity and work ethic, there's very little chance he's on BB's board.

EDIT: BB has never drafted a sophmore in rounds 1 or 2, iirc. I recall looking it up (year by year . . . what a pain in the ass it was) once and found no sophmores in the first two rounds and only 2 ever. Obviously I could have made a mistake looking up info on each draftee, but I didn't miss many.

His round 1 & 2 picks here in NE were:
Rd 1: McCourty, Mayo, Meri, Maroney, Mankins, Wilfork, Watson, Warren, Graham, Seymour
Rd 2: Solder, Dowling, Vereen, Gronk, Cunningham, Spikes, Chung, Brace, Butler, Vollmer, Wheatley, C. Jackson, Hill, Wilson, Bethel J, Branch, Light, Klemm

[Razor]

Originally Posted by BradysKnee

I'm probably in the minority, but I have a hardon for Branch over Brockers and maybe even Upshaw etc. I think Branch fits perfectly in our 3-4.

To be honest I think that guys like Branch are dime a dozen.. I don't think he's special in any way. Sure he's big and fast, but he's not a natural pass rusher IMO. He doesn't seem to have a knack for making plays or anything. I think he's a very underwhelming prospect despite his natural tools. Then again, I suppose that just speaks for BB taking him...

[Don Vito]

I'm on the Chandler Jones bandwagon as well but I still like Brockers. Wouldn't mind both but something tells me Jones is going way before we think he is and I think Brockers could have an Alan Branch like slide, they are similar to me.

[descendency]

Andre Branch (DE, Clemson) is never doubled. None of the offensive coordinators felt he was much of a threat. His production isn't there.

His fellow Clemson DL (Brandon Thompson) was doubled every play. I seriously doubt Branch is drafted in the first two rounds. He doesn't play the edge well, he's consistently run out of the picture on his bends, and his overall technique is lacking.

Chandler Jones, as raw as he is, is a better player than Branch.

[Blackluck]

So, have we eliminated everybody yet?

Kidding of course. I can only imagine what it must be like in the scouting department. As cmarq posted in the drafting thread, who is going to be the wtf pick at 27?

For me, that would be a CB not named Kirkpatrick. (Although J. Jenkins is widely regarded as the best cover corner in the draft I have a hard time believing Belichick would draft him, so he doesn't count. I honestly don't know what I would think if we did draft him. I guess hope for the best. And tie him to Wilfork's ankle so he can't get into trouble. )

[descendency]

Ochocinco is 225 according to his twitter account. Maybe he can add another 15-20 pounds and play OLB ;)

[descendency]

Just perused quite a few Greg Childs' scouting reports to see what others thought about him. I really hope NFL teams think like they do. The Patriots could end up with a STEAL.

He tore his Patella tendon half way though 2010. Then missed the rest of 2010 and looked bad in 2011. Shock? Not really. That's what happens when you tear something in your knee. However, the usual recovery path is to suck the next year, whether it be an ACL, MCL, or whatever tear (anything in your knee is just about the same in terms of recovery).

Childs has all of the tools to come in an compete for a roster spot day 1.

[cmarq83]

Originally Posted by descendency

Just perused quite a few Greg Childs' scouting reports to see what others thought about him. I really hope NFL teams think like they do. The Patriots could end up with a STEAL.

He tore his Patella tendon half way though 2010. Then missed the rest of 2010 and looked bad in 2011. Shock? Not really. That's what happens when you tear something in your knee. However, the usual recovery path is to suck the next year, whether it be an ACL, MCL, or whatever tear (anything in your knee is just about the same in terms of recovery).

Childs has all of the tools to come in an compete for a roster spot day 1.

I'd give Childs a shot. He has a nice set of tools to work with, and conceivably I could see him beating out Stallworth, Branch, Ocho, and Gonzales. I probably wouldn't pick him with any of the picks we currently have, but if we would want to give him a shot in free agency or trade back for a later pick I'd be down. He's a beast blocker, and reuniting him with Mallett would make TC more interesting.

I'm actually planning on doing some later round scouting reports for the thread in the next couple of weeks. I'm going to do Olivier Vernon, Ty Hilton, and Danny Trevethan, but I might add Childs to the mix too.

[descendency]

I wouldn't let Childs passed the 4th round pick we have.

He is exactly what NE needs. He's a big body with elite potential. He was a top 3 WR coming into 2010 (behind Floyd and Jeffery). I think he still has that potential.

edit: he'd be a 3rd or second rounder on my board.

edit: Similar to Brandon Tate.

[Don Vito]

Childs has battled injuries for two years, he looked like a potential top 15 pick not too long ago. I would love for us to give him a shot.