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Old 12-01-2013, 03:21 PM    (permalink
Jcn92
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Yeah, the Pats need to draft some defensive linemen.
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Old 12-01-2013, 11:03 PM    (permalink
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They need linemen now if they want to go anywhere in the post season. I don't see a viable solution to this.
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Jesse realizing Walt was Santa Claus could really shake things up.
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Old 12-02-2013, 05:48 AM    (permalink
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Yeah all the DTs are just getting dominated up front, even Sopoaga who is meant to specialise in run stuffing isn't doing a great job.

I think the issues in the secondary have hurt the run defense in a way. If Talib and Dennard can stay healthy throughout the postseason it frees up the LBs to attack. Neither Hightower nor Spikes are overly effective when they can't just flow downhill.

I don't imagine it will cure all the woes but hopefully it will slightly solve some of the issues.

The issue I saw yesterday was to compensate for the horrendous play in the middle Nink and Chandler had to try to do more which often seen them not set the edge properly. On Tates first TD Nink couldn't set it which is not something we are used to seeing at all. Also, Buchanan kinda sucks right now
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Old 12-02-2013, 05:56 AM    (permalink
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Oh, by the way, Gronk is my favourite person in the history of history. Just thought you should all know
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Old 12-02-2013, 10:08 AM    (permalink
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Imagine if Gronk was fully healthy.
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Jesse realizing Walt was Santa Claus could really shake things up.
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Old 12-02-2013, 10:15 AM    (permalink
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Imagine if Gronk was fully healthy.
He's just such a boss even now with him not being 100%. Him carrying 2 guys for an extra 10 yards yesterday was so damn good to watch. With him on the field the Pats offense is just a different beast. And just think, if Brady didn't throw that good awful INT in the 1st he could have had close to 200 yards because he was behind the defense. Gotta think that was going to go for anohter 40 or 50
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Old 12-02-2013, 12:48 PM    (permalink
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On top of having really inconsistent WRs, both Dobson and Thompkins are hurt now. Boyce has to step in, and I really don't like that. We really really need a Wr.
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Old 12-02-2013, 02:45 PM    (permalink
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On top of having really inconsistent WRs, both Dobson and Thompkins are hurt now. Boyce has to step in, and I really don't like that. We really really need a Wr.
Yeah that's a worry right now. Although having Edelman and Amendola on the field together works for me we still need a perimeter threat. Dobson was coming along nicely too , hopefully this doesn't set him back
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Old 12-02-2013, 03:24 PM    (permalink
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Honestly if we can get dob back healthy, and get him to produce just one or two down the field catches a game, we'll be good. We just need defenses to have to somewhat respect that aspect of our offense, which that really wont cut it but its better than what we had last year (if he can produce that).
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Jesse realizing Walt was Santa Claus could really shake things up.
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Old 12-03-2013, 11:19 PM    (permalink
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Been a while, might be on from time to time again.

Velano looked terrible Sunday, getting tossed around repeatedly. Jones didn't look great either, though the last play of the game he was an absolute beast. Both are good developmental tackles, but neither was supposed to have this type of role this year, ESPECIALLY at this time of year. Top need going into the offseason has to be DT, particularly a DT who can anchor the line. Next would be CB depending on the Dennard/Talib situations.

Chandler Jones is an animal. He gets held what seems like every pass rush and has shown up in the run too. Ninkovich has had a typical Ninkovich year: he is steady and comes up with clutch plays, Bruschi 2.0ish.

The O-line needs to be more consistent. Solder has been top 3 in the game good at points, but Miller and at times Watt made him look silly. Granted those are two marquee players, but he is just below the top level, though I feel extremely confident he will get there next year.

Blount ran hard Sunday, and to be honest ran harder than I expected this year. All I heard from Bucs fans, and people who had seen him play is that he doesn't run like his size would make you think. He has some wiggle to him, which is certainly a pleasant surprise, but he has run with a purpose.

I worry about the defense going down the stretch and into the playoffs. Can't stop the run....or basically anyone at this point. That takes possessions away from the offense and also forces them to be damn near perfect. Neither is optimal.
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Old 12-04-2013, 08:57 AM    (permalink
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To be honest, I don't think the 2nd seed would necessarily be worse for us than the 1st seed. I'd honestly rather play Indy, an Atkinsless Cinci, or KC in NE and then travel to Denver for the AFC Championship game than have any risk of having to play Baltimore in the playoffs, regardless of how bad their offense looks this year.
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Old 12-04-2013, 09:11 AM    (permalink
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I'm fine with playing baltimore. They look seriously putrid. No run game, no passing attack, and the defense is meh. Although I haven't watched a ton of them this year so maybe I should shut my mouth, but thats the general impression that team has given me.

Also, how dumb are the moves to cut Love and Deadrick looking right now?
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Jesse realizing Walt was Santa Claus could really shake things up.
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Old 12-04-2013, 09:30 AM    (permalink
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I'm fine with playing baltimore. They look seriously putrid. No run game, no passing attack, and the defense is meh. Although I haven't watched a ton of them this year so maybe I should shut my mouth, but thats the general impression that team has given me.
Their defense is really good, their CB duo of Webb and Smith is really picking it up. They've heated up since the Broncos game, and have only let up 17 PPG since. Their running game is putrid, but so is our rush defense. I'd at least take the shell of what they have (Monroe, Oher, Yanda, Rice) vs. whatever it is we have. Plus, they're getting Pitta back who has always destroyed us.

Even when we've been good, and they've been terrible 2007 (16-0, 5-11) they've played us very tight. I just want absolutely no part of that team in January after 2009 and 2012. We've been down that road before, and I have not liked what I've seen.

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Old 12-04-2013, 09:33 AM    (permalink
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Also, how dumb are the moves to cut Love and Deadrick looking right now?
Well I flipped out at the time because of it, and it turned out even worse than I thought it could have. Wilfork, Kelly, and Armstead all are out for the season, and we have 2 late round/UDFA's starting and playing exactly like their draft selection would have indicated.

It's bizarre that a calendar year ago we couldn't do anything outside the hashes, and now one year later the strength of our team is outside the hashes. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

I really think this is something we're going to need to address in FA next offseason because I don't see Wilfork being back. I think an Arthur Jones or a Alan Branch is the type of guy we need to bring in since Sopoaga looks just terrible.

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Old 12-04-2013, 10:04 AM    (permalink
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Well I flipped out at the time because of it, and it turned out even worse than I thought it could have. Wilfork, Kelly, and Armstead all are out for the season, and we have 2 late round/UDFA's starting and playing exactly like their draft selection would have indicated.
I'm not sure that's fair. Yes they are both liabilities against the run but Chris Jones at times has been down right dominant as an interior pass rusher. If either Kelly or Wilfork were still playing he would look like a real find.

The problem is he shouldn't be playing over 90% of the snaps. He should be in that Mike Wright role which he has done a really good job at. You don't find that many late round/FA types who can rush the passer from the interior like he can.

Vellano has struggled some but he shouldn't be in those positions either.

In hindsight getting rid of both guys has left us short, but personally I would rather have Chris Jones over Deaderick. I mean, it's not like Deaderick has lit it up in Jacksonville this year. And honestly we all called out having a DT pairing of Wilfork and Love because they didn't have the lateral agility needed. Now we get a guy who can penetrate and slide down the line and we complain?

No team can predict they will lose 3 potential players who would log significant snaps at one position. I'm happy going forward with Jones and Vellano as long as we draft/sign a DT to take over from Wilfork.
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Old 12-04-2013, 10:34 AM    (permalink
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It's entirely fair. Jones has slowed down immensely in recent weeks, and regardless we didn't decide between Jones and Love/Deaderick, we decided on Vellano/Forston/Armstead over Love/Deaderick as Jones was an in season pickup. Going forward I can see Jones being a good piece, but at the same time I could see Armstead showing him up in training camp, and Jones not making the team anyways.

Love and Deaderick are sand in their pants type guys. Neither is sensational, but they got the job done defending the run, and at times Love was great at it. Considering that we chose 2 of our top 3 DT's as pass rushers it would have made sense to keep the last guy as a pure run defender in case of an injury to Wilfork. That was my argument at the time, and it has entirely played out exactly as the worst case scenario I described.
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Old 12-04-2013, 10:48 AM    (permalink
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It's entirely fair. Jones has slowed down immensely in recent weeks, and regardless we didn't decide between Jones and Love/Deaderick, we decided on Vellano/Forston/Armstead over Love/Deaderick as Jones was an in season pickup. Going forward I can see Jones being a good piece, but at the same time I could see Armstead showing him up in training camp, and Jones not making the team anyways.

Love and Deaderick are sand in their pants type guys. Neither is sensational, but they got the job done defending the run, and at times Love was great at it. Considering that we chose 2 of our top 3 DT's as pass rushers it would have made sense to keep the last guy as a pure run defender in case of an injury to Wilfork. That was my argument at the time, and it has entirely played out exactly as the worst case scenario I described.
Even taking Chris Jones out of the equation, they decided on Wilfork, Kelly, Vellano, Forston and Armstead over the first two Love and Deaderick. And Love was cut for medical reasons and there is a reason why he is currently on the street.

You can make a strong argument the Pats should have had a fall back option should Vince go down, and I do agree with that. I just think it's unfair to heavily criticise 2 rookie DTs who are playing over 90% of snaps. Hell I'm not even sure Sheldon Richardson or Star Lotulelei are playing that much.

I'm also not sure Deaderick would add much. He wasn't "that" stout against the run and actually spent a lot of time playing left end instead of inside at DT. And if Love was that much of a loss he would be picked up by some team now. He was a great role player when he was here but he's not the same guy and he was limited to what he could do.

I get the criticism of the decision to go with one nose into the season, but I just think it's very harsh to overly criticise the two DTs at the minute. And I also think Chris Jones especially is living above his draft status. Based on how they have played this year I would maybe take 6 DTs over him:

Richardson
Lotulelei
Kawann Short
Hankins
Jenkins
Bennie Logan

And the bottom 3 because they play the nose. I am not saying he is a star or an every down DT in the future, but he is playing better than any 6th rounder not named Ellington
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Old 12-04-2013, 11:19 AM    (permalink
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Again, there isn't really any way to argue that the Pats made the right decision. They didn't really gain anything by cutting Love and Deaderick before training camp. At least let them compete. We had 2 proven players that had shown in the past that they were capable of playing high snap counts. Vellano and Jones have proven that they cannot. Period.

While it may not be fair for them to be playing high snap counts given their green nature and late round status, but in the end that is something that should have been taken into consideration when deciding who was going to be on the back end of the roster. Given that Kelly and Wilfork are both 32 and Armstead had a pretty checkered injury history, it is reasonable to have expected the Pats to have a good contingency plan, they didn't.

Now it's by far the biggest weakness on the team, and truthfully Vellano and Jones have been dreadful the past 2 weeks. The decision looks dumb, and the DT's are playing awful. It's as simple as that.
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Old 12-04-2013, 11:23 AM    (permalink
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Furthermore, who cares about fairness? You're on a roster based upon what you can contribute towards making the team better and deeper. Right now, neither of them is making the team better, and they definitely have not shown to be adequate depth.
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Old 12-04-2013, 12:44 PM    (permalink
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I disagree with that. I am fine with having them on this team for depth, most depth guys aren't going to be generating the amount of pressure they have been (its been good), and while not stellar against the run (straight liability really), I doubt most teams have guys at the very bottom levels of positions of depth ready to do more than they have. I still think Deadrick and Love cuts were bad (obviously), but I think youre being a bit too critical of these guys. Maybe. I get where youre coming from, but a week or two ago we were talking about how well theyve been playing, and now from two games were talking about them being unworthy of roster spots.
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Old 12-04-2013, 01:31 PM    (permalink
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I didn't, and still don't, understand the Love love. He was an adequate run stuffer for a year or two with no upside that was an unfortunate victim of health issues that made his play decline.
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Old 12-05-2013, 04:57 AM    (permalink
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The thing with how teams are playing us this year is they are attacking us straight up the middle due to depth issues and a lack of run stuffers. However when we played with Andre Carter, Vince Wilfork, Kyle Love and Brandon Deaderick QBs were trying to break the pocket and sustain plays which killed us in numerous big games - Baltimore did it a few times.

Now we have athleticism but not bulk. Look at the Corlina game. The defense did a tremendous job against one of the best teams in the NFL and one of the strongest, most mobile QBs from breaking the pocket. Really the only damage Cam did with his legs was on a herculean effort which should go down as one of the plays of the season.

All of a sudden now that they gave up big games on the ground 2 weeks in a row it's the end of the world. I truely believe Belichick decided to cede the ground game to the Broncos rather than have Manning throw. It's a similar situation to where he said he wanted Thurman Thomas to have 100 yards on the ground in the Superbowl in the early 90s because that would mean the Bills wouldn't pass as much.

Yes, the Texans game was poor. But a lot has to go on Spikes and Hightower as well, really the whole defense was poor. Plus, while they haven't played very well, the Texans o-line has some really good players and Tate isn't a scrub.
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Old 12-05-2013, 08:31 AM    (permalink
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I just want to reiterate the fact I'm eating crow on the Hightower pick, and say cmarq was on the money with that one. He is a liability in almost every aspect of the game.
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Old 12-05-2013, 08:59 AM    (permalink
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I just want to reiterate the fact I'm eating crow on the Hightower pick, and say cmarq was on the money with that one. He is a liability in almost every aspect of the game.
Yeah. I had high hopes he could be a moving chess piece against the run, in coverage and as a pass rusher. Really he has disappointed in all aspects thus far
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Old 12-05-2013, 09:14 AM    (permalink
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Also re Hightower, props to cmarq on calling it from the start. I don't know about the rest of you guys but I kind of went blind in praising the pick.

Belichick doesn't normally draft bust LBs and Hightower had plus size and a great pedigree. But he is stiff, a liability in coverage and hesitant against the run. Really he is a very poor man's Brandon Spikes.

He offers nothing as a coverage LB and he doesn't bring the power that Spikes does in the run game.

Right now I think we would be better suited giving Fletcher more snaps and blooding Collins in
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