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Old 05-27-2007, 09:28 PM    (permalink
BlindSite
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He's better in coverage and run support over just about everyone you mentioned in your top 5 except for Bailey. His only negatives is he can allow faster receivers to get some extra yards on smokes and screens because he gives a big cushion. Thats about it, he fights like a WR for the ball and flat out levels people when he hits.

I can understand where you're coming from though.
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Old 05-27-2007, 09:30 PM    (permalink
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8l0sMNiKp8
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Old 05-27-2007, 09:33 PM    (permalink
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You're missing Ken Lucas who's easily top 5.

that guy gets no respect just because he was injured last year.
Definitely one of the most underrated and under appreciated cornerbacks in the league.

People forget just how dominant he was the season before when he had an All-Pro caliber season even though he got snubbed. He Only gave up 1 TD the whole year and had a monster playoffs having 2 game sealing picks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8l0sMNiKp8
you already posted it :)

Shame he had an unlucky year with injuries. but even in a down year for him he only gave up 2 touchdowns the whole season and one of them was to a TE Todd Heap on a jump ball which is a huge mismatch for any Corner in the endzone.
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Old 05-27-2007, 09:47 PM    (permalink
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He's better in coverage and run support over just about everyone you mentioned in your top 5 except for Bailey. His only negatives is he can allow faster receivers to get some extra yards on smokes and screens because he gives a big cushion. Thats about it, he fights like a WR for the ball and flat out levels people when he hits.

I can understand where you're coming from though.
Well, that's debateable. Chris McCalister is one of the best press coverage CB's in the NFL, and man to man plays better coverage than just about anyone. Run support I agree Lucas is better. Clements is better in run support than Lucas, they seem pretty even in coverage. As for Mathis, he's just a playmaker and his ball skills are fantastic. Lucas's are as well, but Mathis is nearly always coming up with the pick, and if not the swat. When comparing the two remember that Lucas has the aid of the best DE in the NFL, Julius Peppers to rush the qb's decisions. Nnamdi really improved from an efficient 2005 season with a breakout year in 2006, and I like him to keep improving. As of right now, you may be right, Lucas could be better, but we'll see this season.

Of my top 5 the only one I think it's arguable that Lucas is better than is Rashean Mathis.
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Old 05-27-2007, 10:04 PM    (permalink
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Well, that's debateable. Chris McCalister is one of the best press coverage CB's in the NFL, and man to man plays better coverage than just about anyone. Run support I agree Lucas is better. Clements is better in run support than Lucas, they seem pretty even in coverage. As for Mathis, he's just a playmaker and his ball skills are fantastic. Lucas's are as well, but Mathis is nearly always coming up with the pick, and if not the swat. When comparing the two remember that Lucas has the aid of the best DE in the NFL, Julius Peppers to rush the qb's decisions. Nnamdi really improved from an efficient 2005 season with a breakout year in 2006, and I like him to keep improving. As of right now, you may be right, Lucas could be better, but we'll see this season.

Of my top 5 the only one I think it's arguable that Lucas is better than is Rashean Mathis.
Nate Clements is the most overrated cornerback in the league, he played a lot of zone coverage and doesn't keep his feet moving when tackling, which makes me wonder how he could be better than Lucas in any aspect of tackling, since his technique is shoddy.

As for Mathis being better at taking INTs, did you not watch that video, he's got excellent position and most of those are on timing routes where he's exploded in front of cornerbacks.

Mathis isn't even top 5. imo.

As for Chris McAllister. I've never been a fan of his and I really think he's overrated. He's gotten a lot better since he's stopped his party hard ways but realistically he still gets beaten deep too often and against carolina this year he had a terrible game.
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Old 05-27-2007, 10:24 PM    (permalink
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Nate Clements is the most overrated cornerback in the league, he played a lot of zone coverage and doesn't keep his feet moving when tackling, which makes me wonder how he could be better than Lucas in any aspect of tackling, since his technique is shoddy.

As for Mathis being better at taking INTs, did you not watch that video, he's got excellent position and most of those are on timing routes where he's exploded in front of cornerbacks.

Mathis isn't even top 5. imo.

As for Chris McAllister. I've never been a fan of his and I really think he's overrated. He's gotten a lot better since he's stopped his party hard ways but realistically he still gets beaten deep too often and against carolina this year he had a terrible game.
Nate Clements on this board is pretty underrated for the most part. He had a somewhat down year this season, but he is still among the best CB's IMO. Tackling-wise Clements is more physical. He wrecks people and is very adept at jarring the ball loose.

I've seen the Lucas video, several are great plays where he jumps the routes, but several are poorly thrown balls or jump balls in the corner of the end zone. I couldn't find a video of Mathis, but he made some fantastic picks this season.

Chris McCalister before this season was awful at catching the ball. He improved this season, but still dropped a few interceptions. He stays so close to the receiver that he apart from Champ Bailey is the only CB that I would consider semi "shutdown." He doesn't have that many balls thrown his way, Samari Rolle is clearly the weak link of the secondary. He's fantastic in coverage and like I said earlier his press coverage is second to none. As for him having a bad game against Carolina, every CB has a bad game every once in a while, Steve Smith is a hard person to cover. He at least came out of that game with an int.
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Old 05-27-2007, 10:25 PM    (permalink
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Definitely one of the most underrated and under appreciated cornerbacks in the league.

People forget just how dominant he was the season before when he had an All-Pro caliber season even though he got snubbed. He Only gave up 1 TD the whole year and had a monster playoffs having 2 game sealing picks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8l0sMNiKp8
you already posted it :)

Shame he had an unlucky year with injuries. but even in a down year for him he only gave up 2 touchdowns the whole season and one of them was to a TE Todd Heap on a jump ball which is a huge mismatch for any Corner in the endzone.
Lucas is good. That INT in the Dallas vs Panthers game was utterly sick. He was covering TO i think. Just curious though, who would you bump out of the top 5 to put Lucas in ?
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Old 05-27-2007, 10:55 PM    (permalink
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Nate Clements is the most overrated cornerback in the league, he played a lot of zone coverage and doesn't keep his feet moving when tackling, which makes me wonder how he could be better than Lucas in any aspect of tackling, since his technique is shoddy.

As for Mathis being better at taking INTs, did you not watch that video, he's got excellent position and most of those are on timing routes where he's exploded in front of cornerbacks.

Mathis isn't even top 5. imo.

As for Chris McAllister. I've never been a fan of his and I really think he's overrated. He's gotten a lot better since he's stopped his party hard ways but realistically he still gets beaten deep too often and against carolina this year he had a terrible game.
im pretty sure it was Rolle and the safeties that got burned by smith.(on the 72 yarder)

and Lucas is a very good CB..but last year he was often injured so its hard to judge him based on last season which many are doing if they are putting Samuel in their list
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Old 05-27-2007, 11:42 PM    (permalink
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I've seen the Lucas video, several are great plays where he jumps the routes, but several are poorly thrown balls or jump balls in the corner of the end zone. I couldn't find a video of Mathis, but he made some fantastic picks this season.
Just going off last year with the injuries I'd probably hold off on putting Lucas in the top 5 because of other guys having breakout seasons.

but even injured he had some pretty amazing interceptions last season.
http://play.rbn.com/?url=/nfl/nfl/op...ntextwidth=500
this is versus the Falcons it's at like 1:20 vick scrambles away and just makes one of those throw away throws towards the sideline and somehow Lucas reaches out and makes the sideline interception.

http://play.rbn.com/?url=/nfl/nfl/op...ntextwidth=500
versus the Bucs at like 40 seconds in he stays stride for stride with Galloway on deep route who's still one of the best deep threats in the league and comes across the body to make the diving interception as they are going down in the endzone.
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Old 05-27-2007, 11:52 PM    (permalink
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Just going off last year with the injuries I'd probably hold off on putting Lucas in the top 5 because of other guys having breakout seasons.

but even injured he had some pretty amazing interceptions last season.
http://play.rbn.com/?url=/nfl/nfl/op...ntextwidth=500
this is versus the Falcons it's at like 1:20 vick scrambles away and just makes one of those throw away throws towards the sideline and somehow Lucas reaches out and makes the sideline interception.

http://play.rbn.com/?url=/nfl/nfl/op...ntextwidth=500
versus the Bucs at like 40 seconds in he stays stride for stride with Galloway on deep route who's still one of the best deep threats in the league and comes across the body to make the diving interception as they are going down in the endzone.
Galloway was underthrown on that ball, and the pass was too towards the inside, but I get what you're saying. When I was doing my top 10 I was thinking about where to put Lucas, but ended up leaving him off because of a sub par season last year.
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Old 05-28-2007, 12:17 AM    (permalink
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im pretty sure it was Rolle and the safeties that got burned by smith.(on the 72 yarder)

and Lucas is a very good CB..but last year he was often injured so its hard to judge him based on last season which many are doing if they are putting Samuel in their list
Keyshawn caught 5 passes against McAllister, and he had 5 thrown his way.
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Old 05-28-2007, 12:18 AM    (permalink
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Dunta's good but nowhere near top 5. He is top 15 maybe, but certainly not top 5.

1. Champ Bailey
2. Chris McCalister
3. Nate Clements
4. Rashean Mathis
5. Nnamdi Asomugha
6. Terence Newman
7. Asante Samuel
8. Deangelo Hall
9. Lito Sheppard
10. Pacman (since he's out for this season I'll put Al Harris here).

Soon to be in here, Tye Hill and Darrelle Revis.

I'd bump Clements to four, drop Mathis to 6 leave Nnamdi at 5, put lucas at 3 and drop Lito down to 11.
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Old 05-28-2007, 12:19 AM    (permalink
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Keyshawn caught 5 passes against McAllister, and he had 5 thrown his way.
For a whopping 46 yards...
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Old 05-28-2007, 12:42 AM    (permalink
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3 of which were for first downs.

Besides which, he managed to hold him to two yards less than his season average per catch. 50ypg was his average and 4.3 catches... So he did just as good against McAllister as he did week in week out, not exactly, "shut down"
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Old 05-28-2007, 01:01 AM    (permalink
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Every CB has a game where they don't shut down the receiver. Even Champ Bailey, Jerry Porter embarassed him in 2004 and he actually had a big game against Champ with 3 TD's. It happens to everyone and allowing 46 yards isn't bad. The way the rules are favoring WR's you can't deflect every pass.
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Old 05-28-2007, 02:26 AM    (permalink
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Well, it's officially the offseason. The Packer/Al Harris homers are starting to come out and play.
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Old 05-28-2007, 02:28 AM    (permalink
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Every CB has a game where they don't shut down the receiver. Even Champ Bailey, Jerry Porter embarassed him in 2004 and he actually had a big game against Champ with 3 TD's. It happens to everyone and allowing 46 yards isn't bad. The way the rules are favoring WR's you can't deflect every pass.
You keep saying he's a shut down corner, when he couldn't shut down the team's number two WR and couldn't shut down steve smith either. So which is it?

He allowed at least one TD last year, Ken Lucas has allowed 3 in two years, THAT IS IT, and he was injured pretty much all of last year.
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Old 05-28-2007, 06:23 AM    (permalink
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Champ
McCalister
Mathis
Newman
Lucas (based on strength of his 05 season)

hon mentions: DHall, Winfield, Asumgha, Clements, Lito

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Old 05-28-2007, 08:26 AM    (permalink
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1. Champ Bailey
2. Rashean Mathis
3. Chris McAllister
4. Ronde Barber
5. Terence Newman & DeAngelo Hall (tie)

The lack of Ronde Barber in this thread is stunning.
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Old 05-28-2007, 08:29 AM    (permalink
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Ronde is a system CB that's why.

Rashean isn't close to being number two.
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Old 05-28-2007, 08:36 AM    (permalink
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Ronde is a system CB that's why.

Rashean isn't close to being number two.
So we should being the best cover two corner ever against him? He's in that system, it's not his fault, and he fits it like a glove. Why the hell am I listening to you for anyway? You think the Panthers are better than the 1960's Packers judging by your posts.
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Old 05-28-2007, 08:40 AM    (permalink
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Yeah right buddy, I call you for overrating a system player but I'm a homer.

You think Vince Young is the second coming of jesus, we've all got over defensive tendencies for our players.
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Old 05-28-2007, 08:43 AM    (permalink
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Yeah right buddy, I call you for overrating a system player but I'm a homer.

You think Vince Young is the second coming of jesus, we've all got over defensive tendencies for our players.
The Panthers and Bucs are rivals, if you don't think even a tiny bit of homerism comes into your arguement than you're stupider than I thought.

I think Young has more raw potential than any quarterback in the last decade and is already among the top fifteen in the league. I never once put him above Rivers or anything like that. Compared to when you said Peppers was far and away the best player in the league.
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Old 05-28-2007, 08:44 AM    (permalink
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Most game planned for, I didn't even say he was the best regardless of position. You can't read and cannot recall, so why comment.

Besides, Ronde regardless of system isn't a top 5 QB.
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Old 05-28-2007, 09:08 AM    (permalink
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1. Champ Bailey
2. Chris McCallister
3. Ty Law
4. Nate Clements
5. Rasheed Mathis
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