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View Poll Results: Who is the Best?
Terrell Suggs 41 28.28%
Demarcus Ware 34 23.45%
Shawne Merriman 70 48.28%
Voters: 145. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-29-2007, 08:47 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by neko4 View Post
Merriman. He had like 17 sacks in 12 games and still plays the run pretty well. He'll break Strahan's and Bruce Smith's records.
He may, but I hope not. Many would consider it a tainted record.
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Old 05-29-2007, 08:51 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Chucky View Post
Merriman has actually been proven to using steroids, so i think that would make him worse than barry
Fine, don't make him into the Jose Canseco of football...

I said he failed a test, but what I was pointing out was that over the multiple times (and he has been tested many times, both before and after his failed test) he was clean each time. He's not a routine user, it could be anythign from a tainted supplemet to a one time mistake....not denying he screwed up, just that he's become the poster-child of the steroids in football deal when he's not remotely the worst guy there is for that.
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Old 05-29-2007, 08:51 PM    (permalink
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If Merriman continues to put up the numbers now that he is clean I have no problem with it, Bonds record is tainted cause we all know he did steroids at the height of his success but Merriman was great when he came back.
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Old 05-29-2007, 08:52 PM    (permalink
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Who cares if he is on roids. H is a forceand was a force when he came back from the suspension nd he is getting the derrick thoams type treatment...one trick pont BS.
that's his job. so when he breaks every record in the book go ahead and wine.
Who cares if he is on roids? Apparrently all of the sports world, it gives an advantage, you are really making yourself look like an idiot with a comment like that.

So when I say Rice is a top 5 DE people get on me because all he can do is pass rush?

Yes he is a one trick pony, he wouldn't excel as a 4-3 DE or OLB, a 3-4 blitzer is all he is and all he will be, which puts him a step lower than versatile players such as Ware or Suggs.
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Old 05-29-2007, 08:54 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Phrost View Post
Yes he is a one trick pony, he wouldn't excel as a 4-3 DE or OLB, a 3-4 blitzer is all he is and all he will be, which puts him a step lower than versatile players such as Ware or Suggs.
He's not a terrible player against the run, he's actually pretty good against it, its just not what he's asked to do, so saying he's just a 3-4 blitzer is kinda ignorant IMO.

He's asked to do what he's best at, but its not like he can't do the other things well. He's a 3-4 OLB, who's weak in coverage.
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Old 05-29-2007, 08:58 PM    (permalink
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He's asked to do what he's best at, but its not like he can't do the other things well. He's a 3-4 OLB, who's weak in coverage.
When comparing players that play in different defensive systems you must compare their abilities to play in each system. You Merriman backers keep avoiding this fact.

When doing this, Suggs and Ware both out Merriman in these categories.
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Old 05-29-2007, 08:58 PM    (permalink
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Yo, Phrost

If they cared he'd been kicked out of the league for good.
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Old 05-29-2007, 08:59 PM    (permalink
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Yo, Phrost

If they cared he'd been kicked out of the league for good.
Hey BOE,

If they cared criminals like Vick would be out of the league for good. Sad but true.
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Old 05-29-2007, 09:01 PM    (permalink
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Well, that wish may come true. The penalties for any of the off the field issues or being tested positive for a banned substance list does not deter the players. Obviously something is not working.
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Old 05-29-2007, 09:03 PM    (permalink
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Well, that wish may come true. The penalties for any of the off the field issues or being tested positive for a banned substance list does not deter the players. Obviously something is not working.
Unfortunately for the rest of us non-falcon fans, We may not have the pleasure of facing him week in and out.

I would rather play Vick than Harrington.
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Old 05-29-2007, 09:04 PM    (permalink
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When comparing players that play in different defensive systems you must compare their abilities to play in each system. You Merriman backers keep avoiding this fact.

When doing this, Suggs and Ware both out Merriman in these categories.
The thread started out with....
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Originally Posted by SenorGato View Post
All are DE/OLB hybrids. All are at their best at this position.

Which would you take?
Not which OLB is the best in all systems, which DE/OLB hybrid is the best at being a DE/OLB hybrid. So no, you don't have to compare them in all systems. And don't make a blanket statement like "you Merriman backers", that's very ignorant.

Edit: And also, I don't think I'm wrong on this, though I might be, but don't they all play in essentially the same, if not, a very similar 3-4 Def, with a few different wrinkles?
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Old 05-29-2007, 09:06 PM    (permalink
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The thread started out with....


Not which OLB is the best in all systems, which DE/OLB hybrid is the best at being a DE/OLB hybrid. So no, you don't have to compare them in all systems. And don't make a blanket statement like "you Merriman backers", that's very ignorant.

Edit: And also, I don't think I'm wrong on this, though I might be, but don't they all play in essentially the same, if not, a very similar 3-4 Def, with a few different wrinkles?
Until they all have the same exact systems, I will stick to my guns.
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Old 05-29-2007, 09:09 PM    (permalink
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Until they all have the same exact systems, I will stick to my guns.
They're never going to have the exact same system, no one in the NFL will...

okay though, fair enough. But the question still asked for which DE/OLB is the best DE/OLB, not which one can do the best in the 4-3 and other schemes like you brought up before.

Thinking the other guys are better then Merriman isn't something that's ridiculous, I'm sure its a belief a lot of people have, and I think Ware is possibly even better then Merriman, so I don't care if you think he's worst of the three, but your logic wasn't really addressing the question.
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Old 05-29-2007, 09:47 PM    (permalink
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Ive discussed this with many Ravens fans. In my opinion its Terrell Suggs. He's the most complete of the 3.


He's an equal run stuffer to Ware, equal to Ware in coverage, a better pass rusher than Ware but not Merriman, and he's a better hybrid than both Ware and Merriman. He can hold up as a fulltime DE as well as a rushbacker. Right now, he gets the nod.

However, thats only because Merriman needs to prove himself in my eyes without the roids. So this is a big year for Merriman. If he can continue to dominate this year, Id give the edge to Merriman. Because while he's not as good as Suggs in run stuffing and coverage, hes by far the best pass rusher of the 3. And its not like he stinks in run stuffing either, he's a force. So if he can continue his dominance, he's the best.

But right now, Suggs deserves that credit.

If you break down the 3 based on categories, it goes like this

Best Pass Rusher: Merriman
Best Run Stuffer: Ware/Suggs tie
Best Pass Coverage: Ware/Suggs tie
Best DE: Suggs
Best Big Play Maker: Merriman
Most Intimidating: Merriman

Ware can be just as good as Suggs if he can improve his pass rush. I think physically and production wise, Merriman is better than both, its just that I can't give him that credit until I see what he does this upcoming year.
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Old 05-29-2007, 11:05 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Ive discussed this with many Ravens fans. In my opinion its Terrell Suggs. He's the most complete of the 3.


He's an equal run stuffer to Ware, equal to Ware in coverage, a better pass rusher than Ware but not Merriman, and he's a better hybrid than both Ware and Merriman. He can hold up as a fulltime DE as well as a rushbacker. Right now, he gets the nod.

However, thats only because Merriman needs to prove himself in my eyes without the roids. So this is a big year for Merriman. If he can continue to dominate this year, Id give the edge to Merriman. Because while he's not as good as Suggs in run stuffing and coverage, hes by far the best pass rusher of the 3. And its not like he stinks in run stuffing either, he's a force. So if he can continue his dominance, he's the best.

But right now, Suggs deserves that credit.

If you break down the 3 based on categories, it goes like this

Best Pass Rusher: Merriman
Best Run Stuffer: Ware/Suggs tie
Best Pass Coverage: Ware/Suggs tie
Best DE: Suggs
Best Big Play Maker: Merriman
Most Intimidating: Merriman

Ware can be just as good as Suggs if he can improve his pass rush. I think physically and production wise, Merriman is better than both, its just that I can't give him that credit until I see what he does this upcoming year.
i love you.:D those are all very valid points. i like Suggs the best(homer) but Merriman is a devastating pass rusher and an intimidator
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Old 05-29-2007, 11:34 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Ive discussed this with many Ravens fans. In my opinion its Terrell Suggs. He's the most complete of the 3.


He's an equal run stuffer to Ware, equal to Ware in coverage, a better pass rusher than Ware but not Merriman, and he's a better hybrid than both Ware and Merriman. He can hold up as a fulltime DE as well as a rushbacker. Right now, he gets the nod.

However, thats only because Merriman needs to prove himself in my eyes without the roids. So this is a big year for Merriman. If he can continue to dominate this year, Id give the edge to Merriman. Because while he's not as good as Suggs in run stuffing and coverage, hes by far the best pass rusher of the 3. And its not like he stinks in run stuffing either, he's a force. So if he can continue his dominance, he's the best.

But right now, Suggs deserves that credit.

If you break down the 3 based on categories, it goes like this

Best Pass Rusher: Merriman
Best Run Stuffer: Ware/Suggs tie
Best Pass Coverage: Ware/Suggs tie
Best DE: Suggs
Best Big Play Maker: Merriman
Most Intimidating: Merriman

Ware can be just as good as Suggs if he can improve his pass rush. I think physically and production wise, Merriman is better than both, its just that I can't give him that credit until I see what he does this upcoming year.
Can't really disagree with anythign you said there...

Don't know why I haven't given Suggs too much credit, I guess because I've seen him play the least? From what I do remember though, and your analysis maybe I would place him above Ware. All three of these guys are very tough to rank next to each other.
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Old 05-30-2007, 01:12 AM    (permalink
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Merriman. He had like 17 sacks in 12 games and still plays the run pretty well. He'll break Strahan's and Bruce Smith's records.
All time records are about being productive for a long period of time. It's hard to predict that Merriman will continue to be as productive because that will be predicting how healthy he will be. He has done steroids, that can often lead to injury (see David Boston who was an absolute beast for a while till his body broke down). I still think Merriman is the best choice here tho, all around players are nice to have, but the NFL puts a premium on pass rushers for a reason.

I can't wait to see Manny Lawson in the same scheme as Merriman (our new D-coordinator, Manusky is the Chargers old LB coach, he will bring their aggressive scheme). Manny Lawson has the freak athletic ability to be excellent in pass coverage while being an awesome edge rusher. This year we actually get to run the 3-4 full time so he will actually have an opportunity to blitz more often than we did out of the 4-3.

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Old 05-30-2007, 01:19 AM    (permalink
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Thus, suggs.
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Old 05-30-2007, 03:14 AM    (permalink
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Until they all have the same exact systems, I will stick to my guns.
We'll find out about Ware this season anyways now that Wade is his defensive coordinator.
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Old 05-30-2007, 03:42 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Ive discussed this with many Ravens fans. In my opinion its Terrell Suggs. He's the most complete of the 3.


He's an equal run stuffer to Ware, equal to Ware in coverage, a better pass rusher than Ware but not Merriman, and he's a better hybrid than both Ware and Merriman. He can hold up as a fulltime DE as well as a rushbacker. Right now, he gets the nod.

However, thats only because Merriman needs to prove himself in my eyes without the roids. So this is a big year for Merriman. If he can continue to dominate this year, Id give the edge to Merriman. Because while he's not as good as Suggs in run stuffing and coverage, hes by far the best pass rusher of the 3. And its not like he stinks in run stuffing either, he's a force. So if he can continue his dominance, he's the best.

But right now, Suggs deserves that credit.

If you break down the 3 based on categories, it goes like this

Best Pass Rusher: Merriman
Best Run Stuffer: Ware/Suggs tie
Best Pass Coverage: Ware/Suggs tie
Best DE: Suggs
Best Big Play Maker: Merriman
Most Intimidating: Merriman

Ware can be just as good as Suggs if he can improve his pass rush. I think physically and production wise, Merriman is better than both, its just that I can't give him that credit until I see what he does this upcoming year.
bbd, I almost agree on everything, but I don't know if Merriman is the best playmaker. Last year Ware was a true force in that aspect of the game (and he scored 2 TDs), and he made one of the best defensive play of the entire season against the Falcons...
I wanna see Ware playing in the Phillips 34, I think he can improve drastically, Zimmer 34 gave him less opportunities, he will face way more favorable matchups this year.
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Old 05-30-2007, 09:10 AM    (permalink
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Bottomline Terrell Suggs is the most complete player of the 3 and therefore the best! Plus he doesn't have to resort to the juice....
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Old 05-30-2007, 09:13 AM    (permalink
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Ware is the most complete of the 3 but I'd take Merriman.
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Old 05-30-2007, 09:14 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by High Roller View Post
Ware is the most complete of the 3 but I'd take Merriman.
If you believe that then I have a bridge I'd like to sell to you.......
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Originally Posted by Job View Post
On another note, Nicklas Backstrom is amazingly good.
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Meanwhile, in hockey the other night, the Washington Capitals' Eric Belanger gets hit with a stick, loses EIGHT teeth, has an instant root canal in the locker room, comes back out and PLAYS and never says boo.

So new rule, NBA: Unless you have a root canal at halftime, SHUT UP AND PLAY!
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Old 05-30-2007, 09:20 AM    (permalink
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I want Merriman... I want my players to dance. And he's the best all-round dancer out of the three.
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Old 05-30-2007, 09:22 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BigDawg819 View Post
If you believe that then I have a bridge I'd like to sell to you.......
?
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Best Pass Rusher: Merriman
Best Run Stuffer: Ware/Suggs tie
Best Pass Coverage: Ware/Suggs tie
Best DE: Suggs
Best Big Play Maker: Merriman
Most Intimidating: Merriman
If you agree with this, which many do including me, IMO Ware is a better rusher & playmaker making him better than Suggs
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Last edited by High Roller : 05-30-2007 at 09:26 AM.
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