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View Poll Results: Who is the Best?
Terrell Suggs 41 28.28%
Demarcus Ware 34 23.45%
Shawne Merriman 70 48.28%
Voters: 145. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-30-2007, 02:27 PM    (permalink
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And to respond to your question as to other players that had been named, It was Castillio, Foley (when on the team), a Few back-up LB's, Olshansky, and Kiel for sure. Their were others that were just speculation on his part. Those were the guys he actually supplied.
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Old 05-30-2007, 02:32 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BigDawg819 View Post
Suggs has become an overall linebacker/hybrid player because when he entered the league he was a pure pass rusher and that's it. Merriman is still raw and unrefined, he is all pass rush and is a liability in the run defense and as for Ware, I'm sorry I don't buy this hype I hear about him. Ware may come out with a big year this year and may very well live up to this hype but so far I'm not seeing the production to correspond with the potential. Sizzle is by far the best in this group and will continue to prove it for many years to come, and by the way his contract extension is going to be enormous so San Diego and Dallas will have their hands full when their guys are up for renewals.
I'm not too worried about us resigning Merriman. AJ almost always sign the key players to long term extensions before they hit the market. One of the reasons SD never spends that much in FA is because AJ knows that it will be harder to resign players like Rivers, Castillo, Igor, McNeill, and Merriman. All of those players mentioned have contracts currently running through the 2009 season, but I suspect they will start working on an extension for many of them after the 2007 season.
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Old 05-30-2007, 02:33 PM    (permalink
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And to respond to your question as to other players that had been named, It was Castillio, Foley (when on the team), a Few back-up LB's, Olshansky, and Kiel for sure. Their were others that were just speculation on his part. Those were the guys he actually supplied.
You have no proof of this information. Foley was on HGH? Where did you get this idea. Is it from the steroid rage speculation made by the police when they also had no proof of this nonsense?

Edit: Just read your post on Krause. WOW! Seriously the guy couldn't stay on the field if his life depended on it, and now he's running his mouth about an organization that cut him. Color me a little skeptical.
Also, I'm not going to believe it until I get it from a more reliable source. I mean what's to keep me from saying the same things about your favorite team by saying that I knew a guy who used to roomate with a former player? It just seems that SD is an easy target because of the Merriman issue last season and Castillo's bust before the draft.

So next time, bring a video camera or something like that and post the online if you want people to believe you. And not just a player that was cut from a team but also guys like Marcus McNeill and the other 2nd and 3rd stringers. I need proof not just the ramblings of what could be a disgruntled fan.

Last edited by Xenos : 05-30-2007 at 02:41 PM.
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Old 05-30-2007, 02:48 PM    (permalink
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Honestly, I love Ware in coverage. I think thats his best attribute. He was not tripled though. Ive seen him doubled, but thats usually not the case either. Most of the time he had the LT on him, and thats about it. From what Ive seen, Merriman is easily the most doubled of the bunch. He's always doubled.

One of the issues I have is, everyone saying that Ware will be let loose under Phillips. Ive seen plenty of Cowboys games last year. I don't see how Wade is gonna use him any better than BP did. He'll get maybe 4 more rushes at the qb per game. Is that really THAT big of a deal? I mean come on, its not like he was in coverage all the time. He played DE in the nickel, and he rushed at least 50% of the time in the base 3-4. He had plenty of oppurtunities.
bbd, the different, imo, will be in the favorable matchups Ware will face. Last year Ware barely had favorable matchups, 80% of the time he was facing a LT. The Chargers' defense was built to create matchups, the Cowboys defense was very predictable. You would know before the snap what was gonna happen. How many times you see Spears or Canty sliding outside and taking care of the T forcing opposite teams to block Ware with a G or a TE? Not very often. I think this year more opportunities for Ware will come from the ability of Phllips to create those favorable matchups for him.

This is a link I've posted in the cowboys forum, it's pretty clear which was the differece between the two schemes last year.

http://www.bnbathletics.com/cowboysv...v/compare.html
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Old 05-30-2007, 03:30 PM    (permalink
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bbd, the different, imo, will be in the favorable matchups Ware will face. Last year Ware barely had favorable matchups, 80% of the time he was facing a LT. The Chargers' defense was built to create matchups, the Cowboys defense was very predictable. You would know before the snap what was gonna happen. How many times you see Spears or Canty sliding outside and taking care of the T forcing opposite teams to block Ware with a G or a TE? Not very often. I think this year more opportunities for Ware will come from the ability of Phllips to create those favorable matchups for him.

This is a link I've posted in the cowboys forum, it's pretty clear which was the differece between the two schemes last year.

http://www.bnbathletics.com/cowboysv...v/compare.html
I'll agree with that. He will see more favorable matchups this year.

I plan on commenting on that video as soon as I have some decent time. One thing I want to point out quickly is, even with the stunts etc, the success is predicated on the quality play of the front 3. The front 3, if you pay close attention, is the force that drives all those blitzes to work.

Ive said it forever, I don't think this Dallas defense will improve unless the front 3, in particular the DEs make an improvement this year. That is more important than anything else.
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Old 05-30-2007, 03:34 PM    (permalink
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I'll agree with that. He will see more favorable matchups this year.

I plan on commenting on that video as soon as I have some decent time. One thing I want to point out quickly is, even with the stunts etc, the success is predicated on the quality play of the front 3. The front 3, if you pay close attention, is the force that drives all those blitzes to work.

Ive said it forever, I don't think this Dallas defense will improve unless the front 3, in particular the DEs make an improvement this year. That is more important than anything else.
Yeah I know you will, i've posted that for the other users :P

By the way, we agree on the front 3 argument. We have to see how they'll perform in the new scheme. Spears seems better suited for the one-gap system, he has to play to his potential.
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Old 05-30-2007, 04:00 PM    (permalink
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Also, BBD, you shouldn't mistake Ware's quiet and shy nature as lack of passion and fire. To a man, everyone in and around the organization says that he not only wants to be in the same company with the greats of the past, but that he's willing to do anything he can to achieve it.

In fact, his work ethic, character, and drive is the main thing (along with his explosiveness off the ball) that prompted BP and JJ to take him over Merriman in the first place. He may not make a show of it, or do the crazy dances and foam at the mouth the same way that Merriman does, but he is no less driven and passionate.
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Old 05-30-2007, 04:09 PM    (permalink
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All 3 are great players. If I had to rank them, it would be Merriman, Suggs, Ware.
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Old 05-30-2007, 04:25 PM    (permalink
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Also, BBD, you shouldn't mistake Ware's quiet and shy nature as lack of passion and fire. To a man, everyone in and around the organization says that he not only wants to be in the same company with the greats of the past, but that he's willing to do anything he can to achieve it.

In fact, his work ethic, character, and drive is the main thing (along with his explosiveness off the ball) that prompted BP and JJ to take him over Merriman in the first place. He may not make a show of it, or do the crazy dances and foam at the mouth the same way that Merriman does, but he is no less driven and passionate.
Completely agreed.

I have no idea where the "Ware doesn't have as good a motor" is coming from. Everytime I see the guy I'm impressed by him always playing at full speed.
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Old 05-30-2007, 05:35 PM    (permalink
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How much do you guys think Suggs will fetch on the open market next year?

If he doesn't remain a Raven, where do you think he's most likely to go?

I think he's a match made in heaven with the Jets. But the same can be said about the 49ers and almost any other team in the NFL really.
there isnt a big chance that ozzie lets him go. they have already been in contract talks since before the draft. he makes sure the young stars get signed.
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Old 05-30-2007, 05:46 PM    (permalink
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Ozzie Newsome is a great general manager, top 5 in the league quite easily. I was amazed and impressed with him not only after reading "Next man up" but also after looking further into what he's been able to do.

Suggs will remain a raven for the reason that they HAVE to keep him. To be honest I think he's the reason they chose not to match the pats offer to Adalius Thomas.
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Old 05-30-2007, 06:58 PM    (permalink
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Ozzie Newsome is a great general manager, top 5 in the league quite easily. I was amazed and impressed with him not only after reading "Next man up" but also after looking further into what he's been able to do.

Suggs will remain a raven for the reason that they HAVE to keep him. To be honest I think he's the reason they chose not to match the pats offer to Adalius Thomas.
yeah suggs was probably a part of that. im sure ozzie wanted to keep AD but suggs is more important. he is still young and is a fine player.
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Old 05-30-2007, 07:33 PM    (permalink
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And to respond to your question as to other players that had been named, It was Castillio, Foley (when on the team), a Few back-up LB's, Olshansky, and Kiel for sure. Their were others that were just speculation on his part. Those were the guys he actually supplied.
Okay, I mean thats rumors though, you don't think Krause has any bad will towards the Chargers organization? Since they cut him and all....I doubt all of what he says is true...there's a grain of truth to every story but who knows what he actually "supplied" those guys...Krause is a loser who was always injured, and had many incidents with the organization including a DUI, I wouldn't trust what comes out of his mouth.

Plus, that doesn't make these guys "known users" it means one guy with a grudge speculated he gave them stuff, which makes his intentions just as thought-provoking. Take it with a grain of salt.
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Old 05-30-2007, 07:43 PM    (permalink
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You have no proof of this information. Foley was on HGH? Where did you get this idea. Is it from the steroid rage speculation made by the police when they also had no proof of this nonsense?

Edit: Just read your post on Krause. WOW! Seriously the guy couldn't stay on the field if his life depended on it, and now he's running his mouth about an organization that cut him. Color me a little skeptical.
Also, I'm not going to believe it until I get it from a more reliable source. I mean what's to keep me from saying the same things about your favorite team by saying that I knew a guy who used to roomate with a former player? It just seems that SD is an easy target because of the Merriman issue last season and Castillo's bust before the draft.

So next time, bring a video camera or something like that and post the online if you want people to believe you. And not just a player that was cut from a team but also guys like Marcus McNeill and the other 2nd and 3rd stringers. I need proof not just the ramblings of what could be a disgruntled fan.

McNeil neither confirmed or denied what was being said, He's just the biggest name that's ever hit the bars with us. I understand your skepticism, but at the same time, I dont know why Krause would just make that stuff up. He told us these things prior to being cut or having the off field incident he had, and he actually thought he had a future with the team.

I wouldn't fully believe someone telling me these things about Dallas players if it were just hear say, but unfortunately that is all its ever going to be. Krause is gone now, and even if he were still around, he would have never said anything like that on video.

The fact remains, that HGH, when taken properly, can have better results with less side effects than steroids, and is untraceable. It's pretty much expected that a player would use HGH over steroids. However, someone like Merriman may need to use steroids to make a quicker recovery from an injury which is why I believe he was using them before.
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Old 05-30-2007, 07:45 PM    (permalink
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The fact remains, that HGH, when taken properly, can have better results with less side effects than steroids, and is untraceable. It's pretty much expected that a player would use HGH over steroids. However, someone like Merriman may need to use steroids to make a quicker recovery from an injury which is why I believe he was using them before.
Which injuries were those...I remember him having a slight injury but I thought that was this year after the playoffs?
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Old 05-30-2007, 08:31 PM    (permalink
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there isnt a big chance that ozzie lets him go. they have already been in contract talks since before the draft. he makes sure the young stars get signed.
Thats why I said if.

What kind of money do you think he'll get with the Ravens? Any rumors?
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Old 05-30-2007, 08:34 PM    (permalink
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2 issues I have with this whole HGH argument in this thread.

1. If this guy was supplying so much HGH, why the hell didn't he use any? You figure if he did, he would stay on the team right? And wouldn't be so injury prone? I smell ******** and bitterness on his part.

2. HGH is a LEAGUE problem, not a SD problem. Newsflash, I bet 30% minimum of all our teams is on it. Jansen went on record saying 50%. So Im not gonna throw SD under the bus because of internet allegations knowing full well that theres probably guys on my own team using it, coupled with the fact that we can't prove it.
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Old 05-30-2007, 08:42 PM    (permalink
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its def now ware, other 2 way over him
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Old 05-30-2007, 09:58 PM    (permalink
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Merriman doesn't get enough credit for his versatility. He could probably play both defensive end positions in a traditional 4-3, because of how strong he is at the point of attack.
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Old 05-30-2007, 10:17 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by San Diego Chicken View Post
Merriman doesn't get enough credit for his versatility. He could probably play both defensive end positions in a traditional 4-3, because of how strong he is at the point of attack.
Looking at your AV, I just can't help but feel that Phillips is so underappreciated. The guy is the fastest pass rusher on our team and the techniques he uses are awesome. He may not have the intimidation factor like Merriman but he can get it done. Just looking at all the plays he's made this past season after becoming a full time starter and playing with an injury is an amazing. I swear that guy has the ability to just strip the ball from opposing QBs at just the right moment (ie. Carson Palmer and Jake Plummer).
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Old 05-31-2007, 02:13 AM    (permalink
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Which injuries were those...I remember him having a slight injury but I thought that was this year after the playoffs?
What I had heard was that it was just some sort of strain or something of that matter. I know it wasn't a "can't play" injury, but I thought it was one of those potential nagging minor injuries that he was trying to get through.

Who knows? Like I said, Im just passing on what has been told to me by a former member of the team and anyone can take that for what its worth.

I would suspect that over half the league uses HGH. With so many 2nd and 3rd stringers looking for that extra edge, and the way that steroids are pushed starting at the highschool level, its almost inevitable.
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Old 05-31-2007, 06:11 AM    (permalink
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What I had heard was that it was just some sort of strain or something of that matter. I know it wasn't a "can't play" injury, but I thought it was one of those potential nagging minor injuries that he was trying to get through.

Who knows? Like I said, Im just passing on what has been told to me by a former member of the team and anyone can take that for what its worth.

I would suspect that over half the league uses HGH. With so many 2nd and 3rd stringers looking for that extra edge, and the way that steroids are pushed starting at the highschool level, its almost inevitable.
Alright, I just wouldn't get caught up in the "he-said this" game, especially when Krause is the one who is supposedly saying anything. All players have some sorts of strains during the season, so I doubt that would be the reason to prompt any one to do anything.
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Old 05-31-2007, 06:34 AM    (permalink
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Gotta take Merriman on this one.
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Old 05-31-2007, 10:33 AM    (permalink
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Ware edges out T-Sizzle, for me. I love Ware, he's an amazing defensive prospect and one of my favorite players in the NFC.
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Old 05-31-2007, 12:23 PM    (permalink
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First of all, half the league is on HGH. Human veins don't do the things that NFL player's veins do. Just look at them. None of it will ever be proven.

Second of all, I've read a couple times that Merriman is a liability against the run. Where is this coming from? He absolutely crunches ballcarriers, and he's nearly always in position, or blowing up the runner close to the line of scrimmage. If he's a liability in anything, its coverage, and he's a second year player who converted from defensive end. He's still developing and learning, just like Ware.

I like Ware, he's definitely a beast. But he's no Merriman.
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